BerwickMad Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I assume you have reported these people in your constituency. Why don’t you name-and-shame them on here? Anti-Semitism is as disgusting as any other form of racism and I reckon they deserve to be publicly named. I have a couple. For what purpose would I ‘name and shame’ random people you’ve never heard of out of a half million membership on a football forum? Bizarre stance for you to take when trying to deny the obvious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 30 minutes ago, BerwickMad said: I have a couple. For what purpose would I ‘name and shame’ random people you’ve never heard of out of a half million membership on a football forum? Bizarre stance for you to take when trying to deny the obvious. I’m not trying to deny anything, I accept there are almost definitely Labour Party members who have made anti-Semitic comments; what I don’t accept is that it is nearly as widespread as is being portrayed. If there was evidence to suggest otherwise I would happily accept that evidence but, not surprisingly, it seems it short supply. You personally won’t even supply specifics to back it up. What I do know is that there are many politicians, commentators, and people in the MSM who totally despise Corbyn and the general direction that the Labour Party is going in and are all to happy to exaggerate the extent of anti-Semitism. Many of these are Labour Party members and elected politicians. They tried to derail Corbyn’s leadership and once they were soundly defeated began this campaign of exaggeration regardless of its impact on the potential of a future Labour government. You personally fall into that category. Anti-Semitism has historically been a trait of right-wing politics and politicians and there are probably as many examples can be found of anti-Semitism in the Tory Party but no one wants to bring this to the public’s attention. Just recently Rees-Mogg and other Conservative MPs voiced their support for a new group that is an offshoot of a US organisation known for anti-Semitic slurs. There has hardly been any reporting of that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Can anyone tell me why there is a group called 'Labour Friends Of Israel' and not one called say 'Labour Friends Of Argentina' or 'Labour Friends Of India ?'Are there Labour Party members who have a mission to rebut any criticism of the actions of the Israeli Government and who are intent on closing down debate on the subject ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I’m not trying to deny anything, I accept there are almost definitely Labour Party members who have made anti-Semitic comments; what I don’t accept is that it is nearly as widespread as is being portrayed. If there was evidence to suggest otherwise I would happily accept that evidence but, not surprisingly, it seems it short supply. You personally won’t even supply specifics to back it up. What I do know is that there are many politicians, commentators, and people in the MSM who totally despise Corbyn and the general direction that the Labour Party is going in and are all to happy to exaggerate the extent of anti-Semitism. Many of these are Labour Party members and elected politicians. They tried to derail Corbyn’s leadership and once they were soundly defeated began this campaign of exaggeration regardless of its impact on the potential of a future Labour government. You personally fall into that category. Anti-Semitism has historically been a trait of right-wing politics and politicians and there are probably as many examples can be found of anti-Semitism in the Tory Party but no one wants to bring this to the public’s attention. Just recently Rees-Mogg and other Conservative MPs voiced their support for a new group that is an offshoot of a US organisation known for anti-Semitic slurs. There has hardly been any reporting of that. Clearly the vast majority aren’t making outright anti-semitic comments, especially in meetings when others are around. But I do find it a bit disturbing how many defend these people, or who don’t need to be led very far before it all comes spewing out. Another quick example from Radio 4 yesterday I’m reading. Jenny Manson from ‘Jewish Voice for Labour’ in defending Chris Williamson and others defined anti-semitism as ‘hatred of Jews with a sense of impending violence’. Part of a group set up to deny anti-semitism. Imagine claiming it isn’t racism or sectarianism if there’s no sense of violence. A clear attempt to narrow the definition and stop certain comments and behaviour being defined as anti-semitic so that they can defend it and give them permission to spout their vile theories. You won’t find me defending the Tories or the media ignoring/downplaying much of the racism in their party. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, BerwickMad said: Clearly the vast majority aren’t making outright anti-semitic comments, especially in meetings when others are around. But I do find it a bit disturbing how many defend these people, or who don’t need to be led very far before it all comes spewing out. Another quick example from Radio 4 yesterday I’m reading. Jenny Manson from ‘Jewish Voice for Labour’ in defending Chris Williamson and others defined anti-semitism as ‘hatred of Jews with a sense of impending violence’. Part of a group set up to deny anti-semitism. Imagine claiming it isn’t racism or sectarianism if there’s no sense of violence. A clear attempt to narrow the definition and stop certain comments and behaviour being defined as anti-semitic so that they can defend it and give them permission to spout their vile theories. You won’t find me defending the Tories or the media ignoring/downplaying much of the racism in their party. So would you accept the following: The issue of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party is being grossly exaggerated whilst at the same time racism, including anti-Semitism, in other political parties is being largely ignored. The issue of anti-Semitism is being used as a weapon to attack Corbyn, both by people in his own party and by politicians from other parties many of whom previously could care little about the issue. These attacks being nothing to do with anti-Semitism per se. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said: Can anyone tell me why there is a group called 'Labour Friends Of Israel' and not one called say 'Labour Friends Of Argentina' or 'Labour Friends Of India ?'Are there Labour Party members who have a mission to rebut any criticism of the actions of the Israeli Government and who are intent on closing down debate on the subject? I genuinely believe there are some Labour MPs who would rather see the pro-Zionist Theresa May in No 10 as opposed to a Labour PM who questions Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians. Such MPs are small in number but are an absolute disgrace. Their loyalties are very misplaced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 No, in the main I don’t think it’s being grossly exaggerated. I think it’s a huge problem in the party and is totally contrary to the values of what it should stand for. I don’t think the denial of many and the widespread defence of anti-semites is much better either. That said, of course Corbyns political opponents will ‘use it’ and seek to exaggerate it, like what will happen with any negative aspect of an opponent. That doesn’t mean that the lesson to learn, or the main focus should be downplaying it and pointing the finger back. The main focus should be sorting it out, actual zero tolerance and not the soft approach Corbyn and his team have had. They don’t help themselves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said: Can anyone tell me why there is a group called 'Labour Friends Of Israel' and not one called say 'Labour Friends Of Argentina' or 'Labour Friends Of India ?' Are there Labour Party members who have a mission to rebut any criticism of the actions of the Israeli Government and who are intent on closing down debate on the subject ? https://www.labourfriendsofindia.co.uk/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 12 minutes ago, BerwickMad said: No, in the main I don’t think it’s being grossly exaggerated. I think it’s a huge problem in the party and is totally contrary to the values of what it should stand for. I don’t think the denial of many and the widespread defence of anti-semites is much better either. That said, of course Corbyns political opponents will ‘use it’ and seek to exaggerate it, like what will happen with any negative aspect of an opponent. That doesn’t mean that the lesson to learn, or the main focus should be downplaying it and pointing the finger back. The main focus should be sorting it out, actual zero tolerance and not the soft approach Corbyn and his team have had. They don’t help themselves. Can you point me to a source which documents the extent of this 'huge problem'? If the problem really is so big there has to be sources on line that validate this claim. I refuse to believe that in the internet era with rampant social media there are not multiple sources giving actual examples as oppossed to vague claims, yet I am finding it impossible to identify these sources. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Can you point me to a source which documents the extent of this 'huge problem'? If the problem really is so big there has to be sources on line that validate this claim. I refuse to believe that in the internet era with rampant social media there are not multiple sources giving actual examples as oppossed to vague claims, yet I am finding it impossible to identify these sources.No, I’m not going to hunt out a source or a document for you. I’m giving my opinion based on what I’ve witnessed, what I read online, and what people say in interviews etc. I’ve given you an example of Jenny Manson, someone who I’ve seen many people support and defend, who represents a group denying anti-semitism who fly flags in front of stages that Labour politicians speak on. If you decide not to accept that then fine. I’m not presenting evidence to court here, it’s an Internet forum discussion. We’d be here providing ‘evidence’ back and forward until someone gets bored. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 33 minutes ago, BerwickMad said: No, I’m not going to hunt out a source or a document for you. I’m giving my opinion based on what I’ve witnessed, what I read online, and what people say in interviews etc. I’ve given you an example of Jenny Manson, someone who I’ve seen many people support and defend, who represents a group denying anti-semitism who fly flags in front of stages that Labour politicians speak on. If you decide not to accept that then fine. I’m not presenting evidence to court here, it’s an Internet forum discussion. We’d be here providing ‘evidence’ back and forward until someone gets bored. Fair enough. I’m simply astounded that anti-Semitism amongst Labour Party members is rife and yet finding evidence of it online is so difficult; it’s a real puzzler. Maybe I should just accept it without any evidence to back it up but I’m reluctant to do so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 https://www.labourfriendsofindia.co.uk/Mea culpa, it's an absolute fair cop. But maybe the fact that I'd never even heard of this group speaks volumes about the way in which Israel has become almost permanently front and centre in British politics. Just why is that ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said: 3 hours ago, welshbairn said: https://www.labourfriendsofindia.co.uk/ Mea culpa, it's an absolute fair cop. But maybe the fact that I'd never even heard of this group speaks volumes about the way in which Israel has become almost permanently front and centre in British politics. Just why is that ? The Israelis are top notch lobbyists and propagandists. They've clearly been stepping up their efforts as BDS must be hurting them more than they'd admit. They're heavily pushing the idea that any actions against or criticism of the Israeli State should be attacked as anti semitic or at least dog whistling anti semitism. Edited February 28, 2019 by welshbairn 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) Is there a Labour friends of Thatcher group? Like socialists that like traditional cottage roofs? Edited February 28, 2019 by dirty dingus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 3 hours ago, BerwickMad said: No, I’m not going to hunt out a source or a document for you. I’m giving my opinion based on what I’ve witnessed, what I read online, and what people say in interviews etc. I’ve given you an example of Jenny Manson, someone who I’ve seen many people support and defend, who represents a group denying anti-semitism who fly flags in front of stages that Labour politicians speak on. If you decide not to accept that then fine. I’m not presenting evidence to court here, it’s an Internet forum discussion. We’d be here providing ‘evidence’ back and forward until someone gets bored. Have you seen the sources or documents yourself? Surely you must have to have formed your opinion? Aren't there any that you just remember offhand that you can help us out with rather than having to hunt them down? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 This guy that has been suspended for anti semitism. I have trawled through a Twitter search for his name and can't find a single bit of evidence that supports that. Why is that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 31 minutes ago, dirty dingus said: Is there a Labour friends of Thatcher group? Like socialists that like traditional cottage roofs? Yes, "witch hunt" Watson is their leader and he's got lots of allies within the party, some of who'm have recently defected and some who are still there.................. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 3 hours ago, BerwickMad said: No, I’m not going to hunt out a source or a document for you. I’m giving my opinion based on what I’ve witnessed, what I read online, and what people say in interviews etc. I’ve given you an example of Jenny Manson, someone who I’ve seen many people support and defend, who represents a group denying anti-semitism who fly flags in front of stages that Labour politicians speak on. If you decide not to accept that then fine. I’m not presenting evidence to court here, it’s an Internet forum discussion. We’d be here providing ‘evidence’ back and forward until someone gets bored. What actually is YOUR definition of anti semitism ? I'm seriously interested, as like others I can't find anything wrong with what Chris Williamson has said and according to actual Jews they can't either, so you can probably understand why myself and others find all this rather perplexing ??? "Campaign group Jewish Voice for Labour is calling for his suspension to be rescinded. The group said he had simply been highlighting figures that showed complaints over the past 10 months had led to 453 cases of anti-Semitism being investigated, which involved a tiny fraction of Labour's membership. "The existence of anti-Semitism in the party, as everywhere in society, is not in doubt," the group said in a statement. "It needs to be contested - and the party's beefed up disciplinary processes are doing just that. "But these figures, and the experience of the hundreds of our Jewish members in the Labour Party, give the lie to the false narrative that the party is rife with anti-Semitism. "Such a description bears no resemblance to reality." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 34 minutes ago, WATTOO said: What actually is YOUR definition of anti semitism ? I'm seriously interested, as like others I can't find anything wrong with what Chris Williamson has said and according to actual Jews they can't either, so you can probably understand why myself and others find all this rather perplexing ??? "Campaign group Jewish Voice for Labour is calling for his suspension to be rescinded. The group said he had simply been highlighting figures that showed complaints over the past 10 months had led to 453 cases of anti-Semitism being investigated, which involved a tiny fraction of Labour's membership. "The existence of anti-Semitism in the party, as everywhere in society, is not in doubt," the group said in a statement. "It needs to be contested - and the party's beefed up disciplinary processes are doing just that. "But these figures, and the experience of the hundreds of our Jewish members in the Labour Party, give the lie to the false narrative that the party is rife with anti-Semitism. "Such a description bears no resemblance to reality." ‘Jewish Voice for Labour’? Sounds like a right bunch of anti-Semites. Expel them at once. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Granny Danger said: ‘Jewish Voice for Labour’? Sounds like a right bunch of anti-Semites. Expel them at once. I'm sure Watson will be coming out with this over the coming days............ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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