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Jdog

Israel lobby v Corbyn

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5 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

The use of Nazi Germany trivialises the Holocaust - it's why I personally don't like such comparisons. It's like when people accuse others of being Nazis when clearly they aren't.

 

It's just a bloody awful comparison.

 

I agree that it would be more helpful to avoid Nazi comparisons but if people can call Trump, Bannon, Le Pen etc Nazid then surely the Palestinians have the right to compare their occupiers to Nazis.

Just calling Israel imperialistic, apartheid, violent and racist is enough imo.

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Why would Corbyn suddenly feel the need to apologise for sharing a platform with people ‘who’s views I completely reject’ and for any ‘concern & anxiety I have caused’.?

It may be 8 years ago since this particular event, but Corbyn nailed his colours to the mast years before that, with regards to the Arab/Israeli conflict, plus a number of other well documented sympathies.

His repentance is completely disingenuous and transparent, as he and O’Connell attempt to appease and convince a skeptical electorate that they have now miraculously changed their long held views and prejudices. His only true regret is that he has been tainted by association as an anti-Semite.

Tough Shit! it’s never bothered him before. Duplicitous, deceitful and morally dishonest, that is all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The apology was quite sleekit because he didn't say he rejected Meyer's views speficially just that he had shared platforms in the past with people who's views he rejected. He could be talking about anyone.

He was bailed out by May calling the election as some of his support was being worn down by constant attacks and it would have been hard to keep going without the enthusiasm the election provided. He has taken an incredible level of abuse with dignity and should be able to keep going until the next GE. 

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34 minutes ago, Detournement said:

The apology was quite sleekit because he didn't say he rejected Meyer's views speficially just that he had shared platforms in the past with people who's views he rejected. He could be talking about anyone.

He was bailed out by May calling the election as some of his support was being worn down by constant attacks and it would have been hard to keep going without the enthusiasm the election provided. He has taken an incredible level of abuse with dignity and should be able to keep going until the next GE. 

As he won't win an election and this anti Semitic row is badly damaging the party he is a liability and needs to go.

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8 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

It's the equating of the Israeli state with Nazi Germany that's antisemitic not the criticism of of the policies of that state.

 

You can be a critic of Israeli policies and be an anti-zionist without being antisemitic.

 

As the international definition itself says:

 

"Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic."

 

After previous issues with antisemitism you'd think Labour would tread a little more warily.

 

Here's the parts of the IHRA that most people have a problem with , because they see it as , denying criticism of Israel, and the hence the removal of support for the Palestinians...

-Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
 

-Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
 

-Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

 

Now, Israeli supporters say it's anti-semitic for Corbyn not to fully accept these definitions and it has nothing to do with stopping criticism of Israel...but it clearly is.

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12 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said:

As he won't win an election and this anti Semitic row is badly damaging the party he is a liability and needs to go.

I doubt if the whole manufactured anti-Semitic thing is doing Labour’s electoral chances much harm.

 

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4 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I doubt if the whole manufactured anti-Semitic thing is doing Labour’s electoral chances much harm.

 

And this is another inconvenient truth for the anti Corbyn campaign, we keep hearing from them that it's an existential crisis for Labour ... Jewish voters make up about 0.4% of the vote ,and most of them are Tories, so it's probably between 0.1_.02 % of Labours figures.

But last I read Labours membership has risen ,simply because the vast overwhelming majority of people aren't buying it.

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/blog/opposition-growing-use-ihra-definition-antisemtism/

Screenshot_20180802-085733.png

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I doubt if the whole manufactured anti-Semitic thing is doing Labour’s electoral chances much harm.
 

Maybe not that issue alone, but Corbyn’s sleekit, fraudulent sincerity just might when the electorate see through it.

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If anything our current Prime Minister beats him hands down.

 

She’s certainly on the same level of falseness.

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1 hour ago, RedRob72 said:


Maybe not that issue alone, but Corbyn’s sleekit, fraudulent sincerity just might when the electorate see through it.

 

1 hour ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said:

If anything our current Prime Minister beats him hands down.

It has to be said that recent opinion polls suggest that Labour are not suffering from any claims of anti-Semitism,

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It's difficult to effectively smear someone with accusations of racism in a racist society.

The Labour in crisis narrative is handy cover for the Tory Brexit shambles and going forward right wing Labour MPs defying the whip en masse.

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It's difficult to effectively smear someone with accusations of racism in a racist society.


Isn’t that the exact mirror of the current Labour Leadership under Jeremy Corbyn, and perhaps why the media are making such a fuss about it?

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Maybe not that issue alone, but Corbyn’s sleekit, fraudulent sincerity just might when the electorate see through it.

 

Corbyn notably going to struggle against *squints* the Conservatives and the Lib Dems if people view him as insincere.

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39 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

 


Isn’t that the exact mirror of the current Labour Leadership under Jeremy Corbyn, and perhaps why the media are making such a fuss about it?

 

I presume that question was coherent in your mind but I have no idea what you are talking about.

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3 hours ago, Jdog said:

-Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.

1

The right of self-determination is in the UN charter, so what they are getting at is that there's no obvious reason why a Jewish state has to be viewed as some sort of special exception on that. The problem with how some people on the left treat Israel (usual comment about George Galloway) is that there is a tendency to only tell part of the story, which is to depict Israel exclusively as an Ashkenazi settler state and hence representing a form of latter-day colonialism. Where things get murky and a lot less clear-cut than that is that in the present day most Israeli Jews are actually from more of a Mizrahi background (i.e a Middle Eastern and usually Arabic speaking background ancestrally) and that tends to involve a relatively recent history of having been driven out of a Middle Eastern country where there had been a Jewish population for many centuries with no right of return.  A balanced view of the Israel-Palestine issue would acknowledge on that basis that there was a flow of refugees in two directions and that there is zero prospect of being able to undo everything that happened in the late 1940s in practical terms. Certain left-wing figures are happy to share a platform with people that do not see the two-state solution that flows from that analysis as being the way ahead and that's pretty much inevitably going to lead to ongoing accusations of anti-Semitism, because a set of standards are perceived to be applied only to Israel that are not getting applied elsewhere.

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A 2 state solution has been made impossible by Israeli settlements in the West Bank, the insistance that the Israeli army retains control of all major arteries and the Jordanian border and miles to the west of it. Palestine would be a series of bantustans with no connection to Gaza.

 

 

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I don't see your attempt to equivocate away the Nabka as equivalent to Jewish migration into Israel being very succesful.

In fact it's even stupider than your comparison with the Sudeten Germans.

 

Edited by Detournement

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