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Israel lobby v Corbyn


Jdog

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1 hour ago, G51 said:

Do you not think the fact that mainstream acceptance of things like Islamophobia and anti-Traveller racism is present is exactly why this is a legitimate complaint? That being lectured on antiracism by a collection of racists undermines the very real efforts to tackle antisemitism on the left?

Also, you say "very large slice" but as we discussed, we're talking about less than1% of members here. The resolution of cases also improved once the left took control of the process in 2018. None of these things are being discussed at the minute, because this appears to be about factionalism rather than antisemitism.

Come on, it's obviously more than 1% of members. How much time have you spent around Corbynistas? Besides, even if it was at that level a party that has more than a thousand anti-Semites in its ranks is not great.

I think accusations against EHRC here are all nonsense. And this report came from them, not the Tories.

You're obviously right that the Tories are in no position to lecture, of course, when they have the most racist Home Secretary we've seen since colonial times.

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1 hour ago, Detournement said:

The bait is suspending Corbyn.

The EHRC only found two cases of anti-Semitism neither of which were particularly serious or outwith UK political norms.

How could they *not* suspend Corbyn after what he said? These constant attempts to downplay the thing are why it has been dragging on for years.

If Corbyn had - somehow - won in 2019 he'd probably have had to resign as Prime Minister today. 

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10 minutes ago, GordonS said:

How could they *not* suspend Corbyn after what he said? These constant attempts to downplay the thing are why it has been dragging on for years.

If Corbyn had - somehow - won in 2019 he'd probably have had to resign as Prime Minister today. 

Quote the bit that merits suspension.

The report actually says that agents of the party are allowed to debate the scale of anti semitism in the party. 

He wouldn't resign if he was PM anymore than Boris has resigned for the tonnes of dodgy shit he has been up to eg Jennifer Acuri, letterboxes etc

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How could they *not* suspend Corbyn after what he said? These constant attempts to downplay the thing are why it has been dragging on for years.
If Corbyn had - somehow - won in 2019 he'd probably have had to resign as Prime Minister today. 
Are you mental? We have a pm who referred to Muslim women as "letterboxes" and "bank robbers". Fucking hell [emoji23]
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14 minutes ago, GordonS said:

How could they *not* suspend Corbyn after what he said? These constant attempts to downplay the thing are why it has been dragging on for years.

If Corbyn had - somehow - won in 2019 he'd probably have had to resign as Prime Minister today. 

Pish.

Anyway, intereting to see Keir Starmer going hard on the big priorities.

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If you think the number of complaints constitutes the totality of the members with those views, you're obviously choosing an interpretation to suit your opinions. 

Come on, it's obviously more than 1% of members. How much time have you spent around Corbynistas? Besides, even if it was at that level a party that has more than a thousand anti-Semites in its ranks is not great.
I think accusations against EHRC here are all nonsense. And this report came from them, not the Tories.
You're obviously right that the Tories are in no position to lecture, of course, when they have the most racist Home Secretary we've seen since colonial times.


I’ve at least bothered to provide a statistic to put the figures into context which might be biased but is marginally better than your “have you spoken to Corbynistas? They fucking love quoting the Protocols of the Elders of Zion” caricature.

How could they *not* suspend Corbyn after what he said? These constant attempts to downplay the thing are why it has been dragging on for years.
If Corbyn had - somehow - won in 2019 he'd probably have had to resign as Prime Minister today. 


Given the party appear to be still working out on what grounds they’ve suspended him for I’m not sure where you’re getting this from.

Did you read the report? Again, I’ve only seen select quotes but the intervention that Corbyn has supposedly ordered was to speed up the suspension of Livingstone.
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1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

There are some in our society who undoubtedly mean ‘anti-Jew’ when they say anti-Israel.

IMO there’s more who use the accusation of anti-Semitism as a deflection when they are trying to quash criticism of Israel.

Anti-Semitism is a form of racism and for all his faults I have never considered Corbyn a racist; quite the reverse.

I hold the Jewish religion in the same contempt I hold all religions but I despise what the Zionists in Israel have done and are still doing to the Palestinians and equally despise those countries who are turning a blind eye to that persecution.

 

 

I think the focus on this point has truth but I think a genuine issue in the Corbyn leadership was that it was a broad line of defence when in many cases, the stuff being reported was quite blatantly anti-semitic, this caused a big part of the problem. You can't feel confident in a process if the leadership can be interpreted as delegitimising it, add in that the leader has been friends with Ken Livingstone and it's not hard to see how things fall to shit.

He had this really complicated issue to deal with and his own office and Labour HQ was filled with children and utter no marks who had been proven to be inept. IMO it all comes down to him being a nice guy with decent aspirations but being utterly out of his depth in leadership.

Whether the current approach is correct or not, the problem was massively exasperated by Corbyn just being really shite at politics.

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25 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

Are you mental? We have a pm who referred to Muslim women as "letterboxes" and "bank robbers". Fucking hell emoji23.png

Whataboutery and making things up...

Big Boris never referred to anyone as a letterbox or a bank robber but said certain clothes makes people look like those things. Big difference. 

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5 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

Whataboutery and making things up...

Big Boris never referred to anyone as a letterbox or a bank robber but said certain clothes makes people look like those things. Big difference. 

Shut up

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6 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

Whataboutery and making things up...

Big Boris never referred to anyone as a letterbox or a bank robber but said certain clothes makes people look like those things. Big difference. 

I'm sure when the input of a daft wee *** is required someone will tag you. Cheers. 

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34 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

Whataboutery and making things up...

Big Boris never referred to anyone as a letterbox or a bank robber but said certain clothes makes people look like those things. Big difference. 

So he said that clothes predominantly worn by Muslim women make those who predominantly wear said clothes (Muslim women) look like letterboxes or bank robbers.

Thanks for clarifying that.

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Antisemitism from current Labour frontbenchers alert!

Honestly, what the f**k is that?

I'm sure suspension from the party or at the very least a sacking from the frontbench, as Rebecca Long-Bailey got for retweeting an interview with Maxine Peake, is going to follow in the next few hours. After all, the Labour Party is serious about using today as an opportunity to genuinely tackle racism and learn from past mistakes rather than weaponising it to fight factional battles.

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1 minute ago, CambieBud said:

So criticism of Israeli war crimes equates to antisemitism?

Yes. See Corbyn and the Labour Party.

1 minute ago, CambieBud said:

Is criticism of Saudi or Iranian atrocities anti Islamic?

No. See Boris and the Conservative Party.

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1 hour ago, GordonS said:

Come on, it's obviously more than 1% of members. How much time have you spent around Corbynistas? Besides, even if it was at that level a party that has more than a thousand anti-Semites in its ranks is not great.

I think accusations against EHRC here are all nonsense. And this report came from them, not the Tories.

You're obviously right that the Tories are in no position to lecture, of course, when they have the most racist Home Secretary we've seen since colonial times.

You can’t just go around saying the left is obviously more racist than that when the data is presented to you. Those are the numbers. 
 

Who’s accusing the EHRC of anything btw? I’m not. This is a strawman.

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