Israel lobby v Corbyn

[DeeTillEhDeh]

https://www.labourfriendsofindia.co.uk/

There's also Labour Friends of Palestine and the Middle East.

[pandarilla]

No, I’m not going to hunt out a source or a document for you. I’m giving my opinion based on what I’ve witnessed, what I read online, and what people say in interviews etc. I’ve given you an example of Jenny Manson, someone who I’ve seen many people support and defend, who represents a group denying anti-semitism who fly flags in front of stages that Labour politicians speak on.

 

If you decide not to accept that then fine. I’m not presenting evidence to court here, it’s an Internet forum discussion. We’d be here providing ‘evidence’ back and forward until someone gets bored.

What's Jenny Manson done to make her an anti-semite?

 

I'd never heard of her but after a quick search I'm pretty certain I'd agree with most of her views on the issue (but I'm happy to be won over).

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Fair enough.  I’m simply astounded that anti-Semitism amongst Labour Party members is rife and yet finding evidence of it online is so difficult; it’s a real puzzler. Maybe I should just accept it without any evidence to back it up but I’m reluctant to do so.   

 

 

There's always been a small element of the far left who definitely are antisemitic. Traditionally they wouldn't be involved in the Labour Party in a million years as they saw them as class traitors. The whole shift in the party membership with Momentum means there are almost certainly a few bad apples who've got in to the Labour Party.    

I'm not convinced it's as serious an issue as the Blairite malcontents are making out - as you pointed out even the likes of Barry Gardiner (no friend of Corbyn) has said that the numbers are tiny less than 0.1% of the total membership.

 

I think what is important is that those who are anti-semites are dealt with appropriately whilst still upholding the principles of fairness.

 

I also think Corbyn needs to remember that he is now a potential Prime Minister not a member of the awkward squad any more. That means being more thoughtful in who he is dealing with and what comment he makes in relation to the issues of antisemitism and Israel. I find it crazy that he joined a closed Facebook page Palestine Live - there were antisemitic posts on the site - without checking out who he was dealing with first. It almost as if he takes everyone who says they are anti-Zionist at their word when some (a small element) are using anti-Zionism to mask there own antisemitism. It just leaves him open to attack.

 

In terms of the wider picture I think it's also important that anti-Zionists take the issue of left antisemitism seriously - there is in my opinion an almost blasé attitude from some on the left who seem to think there is no such think as a left antisemitism. If left antisemitism is treated seriously (and proportionately) then it means the anti-Zionist movement as a whole is not damaged or open to attack.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wee Bully]

It's strange (or not) that an issue which directly affects a very tiny minority of the UK electorate seems to garner so much publicity.
The Labour party could quite easily win an election without a single Jewish vote.
 
Makes you wonder why this is such a massive issue in the media. I don't know any of my circle of friends/aquaintences who give a flying f**k about it.

Let’s put this in context.

What if there was an undercurrent of colour based racism in the Labour Party, not specifically referred to as such, but hidden in plain sight along the lines of mugs with ”Controls on Immigration” put on it?

And then someone says:

“It's strange (or not) that an issue which directly affects a very tiny minority of the UK electorate seems to garner so much publicity.
The Labour party could quite easily win an election without a single Black vote.”

How would you view that comment?

Basically I am reading the original post above as saying “there’s not a lot of Jews anyway, and I don’t know any, so f*** em”.

[strichener]

28 minutes ago, Wee Bully said:

 

Let’s put this in context.

What if there was an undercurrent of colour based racism in the Labour Party, not specifically referred to as such, but hidden in plain sight along the lines of mugs with ”Controls on Immigration” put on it?

And then someone says:

“It's strange (or not) that an issue which directly affects a very tiny minority of the UK electorate seems to garner so much publicity.
The Labour party could quite easily win an election without a single Black vote.”

How would you view that comment?

Basically I am reading the original post above as saying “there’s not a lot of Jews anyway, and I don’t know any, so f*** em”.

 

You don't put things into context by making up hypothetical equivalencies.

[Wee Bully]

You don't put things into context by making up hypothetical equivalencies.

Sweep, sweep

[sureiknow]

So how many Labour members have been suspended from their Party for anti Semitism?

How many Tories have been suspended for the same?

I don't have the figures but if it's a lot more Labour than the Tories then likely there's a very good reason.

 

[Suspect Device]

10 hours ago, Wee Bully said:

 

Let’s put this in context.

What if there was an undercurrent of colour based racism in the Labour Party, not specifically referred to as such, but hidden in plain sight along the lines of mugs with ”Controls on Immigration” put on it?

And then someone says:

“It's strange (or not) that an issue which directly affects a very tiny minority of the UK electorate seems to garner so much publicity.
The Labour party could quite easily win an election without a single Black vote.”

How would you view that comment?

Basically I am reading the original post above as saying “there’s not a lot of Jews anyway, and I don’t know any, so f*** em”.

 

 

You're reading it wrongly then.

[NotThePars]

So how many Labour members have been suspended from their Party for anti Semitism?
How many Tories have been suspended for the same?
I don't have the figures but if it's a lot more Labour than the Tories then likely there's a very good reason.
 

Given the Tory party have been reinstating sexual harassers and out and out bigots to help them get legislation passed I don’t think this is the slam dunk you think it is.

[strichener]

12 hours ago, Wee Bully said:

Sweep, sweep

No sweeping contained in my post.  Your own post does contain rather sweeping hypothesis though.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, sureiknow said:

So how many Labour members have been suspended from their Party for anti Semitism?

How many Tories have been suspended for the same?

I don't have the figures but if it's a lot more Labour than the Tories then likely there's a very good reason.

 

That would surely point to Labour standing up to anti semites and doing something about the problem, would it not ???

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, WATTOO said:

That would surely point to Labour standing up to anti semites and doing something about the problem, would it not ???

Yeah and it also ignores the fact that the Labour Party has more than four times as many members.

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Yeah and it also ignores the fact that the Labour Party has more than four times as many members.
 

Not to mention that historically the Tories have been more tolerant of racists in their party.

With the Blukipisation of the Tories I suspect that they will have more racists than Labour.

[NotThePars]

When they say it’s a different political scale it’s because Muslims are worthless and should be repressed. HTH.

[Zetterlund]

23 hours ago, sureiknow said:

So how many Labour members have been suspended from their Party for anti Semitism?

How many Tories have been suspended for the same?

I don't have the figures but if it's a lot more Labour than the Tories then likely there's a very good reason.

Massive political smear campaigns dutifully perpetuated by the establishment media?

[Granny Danger]

Labour General Secretary telling Watson to wind his neck in; I’d like to see Corbyn telling by him the same.

 

[pandarilla]

When they say it’s a different political scale it’s because Muslims are worthless and should be repressed. HTH.

They've just decided it's on a different scale because they've not been discussing it ad nauseam for the last year.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

As funny as I find Labour's various travails, this anti-Semitism issue seems to be a massively exaggerated problem within Labour. Granny makes some very good points. If this is such a huge issue, why do we not have some sort of statistical record of complaints within the party of anti-Semitic chat? If this even did exist how many of these would simply be complaints made about completely legitimate comments about Israel's disgraceful treatment of Palestinians?

It's complete shite manufactured into a giant issue to beat Corbyn up with imo.

[ICTJohnboy]

10 minutes ago, jupe1407 said:

As funny as I find Labour's various travails, this anti-Semitism issue seems to be a massively exaggerated problem within Labour. Granny makes some very good points. If this is such a huge issue, why do we not have some sort of statistical record of complaints within the party of anti-Semitic chat? If this even did exist how many of these would simply be complaints made about completely legitimate comments about Israel's disgraceful treatment of Palestinians?

It's complete shite manufactured into a giant issue to beat Corbyn up with imo.

 

Totally agree.

A pity that the leader of the Labour Party appears to be afraid of pointing out this blindingly obvious fact.

[Granny Danger]

27 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

Totally agree.

A pity that the leader of the Labour Party appears to be afraid of pointing out this blindingly obvious fact.

Corbyn is damned here whatever he does.  The MSM are repeating the claims without any facts checking and their actions are legitimised by people like Tom Watson stirring the pot.

Even the most reasoned challenge by Corbyn would be shot down in flames and give the media an excuse to increase the exposure.