Israel lobby v Corbyn

[Fullerene]

1 hour ago, Bob Mahelp said:

The perception the public have of a politician....and especially the leader of a main party....is absolutely vital.

Michael Foot was a conviction politician with a tremendous intellect, and even some decent policies in amongst the left-wing doctrine that he (like Corbyn) loved. That mattered not, because the public at large perceived him as a doddering old socialist with wild hair who wore a donkey jacket all day long.

I may be wrong, but with Corbyn as leader I seriously doubt that the Labour party will ever become the party of government.  My opinion is that the public perception of Corbyn will destroy any real chance Labour have.

For Labour to succeed, Corbyn needs to act like the Prime Minister in waiting.

One of the worse stunts he ever did was allow himself to be filmed sitting on the floor of a train in order to discuss overcrowding on trains.
Even if it was a valid point, the truth is that no Prime Minister would ever be filmed sitting on the floor of a train.
There would be people alongside him to ensure that he had a seat and failing that they would try to stop him being filmed.
In any case, nobody filming would expect him to co-operate and say "look at me - I am a victim."

This is the sort of clumsiness that he does again and again and again.

[Sooky]

Not that it will change anything, I think Corbyn is well past his fifth avenue moment.

[Detournement]

13 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

For Labour to succeed, Corbyn needs to act like the Prime Minister in waiting.

One of the worse stunts he ever did was allow himself to be filmed sitting on the floor of a train in order to discuss overcrowding on trains.
Even if it was a valid point, the truth is that no Prime Minister would ever be filmed sitting on the floor of a train.
There would be people alongside him to ensure that he had a seat and failing that they would try to stop him being filmed.
In any case, nobody filming would expect him to co-operate and say "look at me - I am a victim."

This is the sort of clumsiness that he does again and again and again.

He sat on the floor because there were no seats. He travels (or at least he did before he started getting death threats) alone on public transport quite regularly.

He wasn't claiming to be a victim and the vast majority of rail travellers will have had a similar experience.

[HTG]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

He sat on the floor because there were no seats. He travels (or at least he did before he started getting death threats) alone on public transport quite regularly.

He wasn't claiming to be a victim and the vast majority of rail travellers will have had a similar experience.

The "no seats" myth was debunked at the time. There were plenty of seats on that train. If you're going to run a stunt like that, at least get on a busy train. There was a reasonable point to be made about the state of rail services in this country but that doesn't help. 

[Detournement]

3 minutes ago, HTG said:

The "no seats" myth was debunked at the time. There were plenty of seats on that train. If you're going to run a stunt like that, at least get on a busy train. There was a reasonable point to be made about the state of rail services in this country but that doesn't help. 

There was footage of him walking by seats but they all had reservations.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/passengers-dispute-virgin-trains-version-of-jeremy-corbyn-sitting-on-floor-video-a7205631.html

[HTG]

4 minutes ago, Detournement said:

There was footage of him walking by seats but they all had reservations.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/passengers-dispute-virgin-trains-version-of-jeremy-corbyn-sitting-on-floor-video-a7205631.html

Fair enough, thanks. 

[Fullerene]

37 minutes ago, Detournement said:

He sat on the floor because there were no seats. He travels (or at least he did before he started getting death threats) alone on public transport quite regularly.

He wasn't claiming to be a victim and the vast majority of rail travellers will have had a similar experience.

Yes.  Almost everyone who travels by train has had that experience.
I still recall standing on a crowded platform in Perth, only for the arriving train to be already full.
"That's okay, I'll catch the next one in two hours time."

My point is that nobody would expect it to happen to a Prime Minister - unless their handlers are grossly incompetent.
People expect the Prime Minister to be the one who tackles the problem instead of being the one to suffer it too.

[Jdog]

1 hour ago, Sooky said:

Not that it will change anything, I think Corbyn is well past his fifth avenue moment.

 

[harry94]

13 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

Yes.  Almost everyone who travels by train has had that experience.
I still recall standing on a crowded platform in Perth, only for the arriving train to be already full.
"That's okay, I'll catch the next one in two hours time."

My point is that nobody would expect it to happen to a Prime Minister - unless their handlers are grossly incompetent.
People expect the Prime Minister to be the one who tackles the problem instead of being the one to suffer it too.

I don't think Corbyn is a competent leader of the Labour Party (or would be a strong PM) but I think this is a pretty petty criticism tbh.

He uses public transport regularly (quite often needing to do things on a whim) and genuinely found himself in that situation (despite the outright lies that Virgin were allowed to spread).  I don't really think it's a bad thing for that to be highlighted as a way of articulating that he has an understanding of the problem.

I agree that our leaders need to be able to be 'better than' squabbles and above that sort of thing but he's not PM, he's the leader of the opposition and that by its very nature is a position of rebellion. He's good at being a normal person and trying to articulate difficult viewpoints honestly. That's the shit that doesn't stick to him.

Edited August 16, 2018 by harry94

[Peppino Impastato]

21 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

You will have one or the other.  That is the sad reality.

It would be great if we had Independence and/or we could start the debate from a point of our chosing but we can't.  We have to accept the reality as it is until we can change it.

Anyway I think as far as jupe and you are concerned I will call it a day.

 

Granny I know you're a little bit senile but the likelihood is there's going to be an independenc referendum before a UK general election, so the entire premise of your argument is simply false. 

[welshbairn]

46 minutes ago, Detournement said:

There was footage of him walking by seats but they all had reservations.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/passengers-dispute-virgin-trains-version-of-jeremy-corbyn-sitting-on-floor-video-a7205631.html

If the empty seats were reserved they were either not being used by the ticket holders or were free at least till York. Either way he was a numpty.

[Fullerene]

4 minutes ago, harry94 said:

I don't think Corbyn is a competent leader of the Labour Party (or would be a strong PM) but I think this is a pretty petty criticism tbh.

He uses public transport regularly (quite often needing to do things on a whim) and genuinely found himself in that situation (despite the outright lies that Virgin were allowed to spread).  I don't really think it's a bad thing for that to be highlighted as a way of articulating that he has an understanding of the problem.

I agree that our leaders need to be able to be 'better than' squabbles and above that sort of thing but he's not PM, he's the leader of the opposition and that by its very nature is a position of rebellion. He's good at being a normal person and trying to articulate difficult viewpoints honestly. That's the shit that doesn't stick to him.

Yes but people would say "Did he not know he would be catching that train?  Does he not have staff who could have made a reservation for it?  Is there nobody in charge of planning his schedule?"

He might not be PM but he needs to give the impression he could easily slip into the role.

[Peppino Impastato]

18 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

If we could postpone the looming GE until after conference, the careerists planning on screwing Labour by breaking away won't be in a position to do so. I cannot wait until the purge begins. Umunna gradually sinking, soundbite by soundbite, into Clegg-esque obscurity and that witch Phillips having to survive on whatever she gets from the Murdoch trough until they drop her will be glorious to behold. Hoey, as well, can fúck right off and take Field with her. 

What the current Labour Party offers is a clear choice. Maybe delivering the entire Manifesto is aspirational, but I defy anyone to pick a policy which will actively make their life worse. We've had forty years of this shite, surely it's time to try a different approach? How could they possibly make things worse?

You'll notice that I say Labour Party, as while Corbyn is a leader I personally admire, he has a team behind him who have, to be honest, surpassed all my expectations. Most importantly, they're Socialists, which used to be a given in the Party, but now marks them as separate (gloriously so)from the failed experiment of the 90's rebrand. 

Speaking from South of the border, though, while the SNP have taken advantage of Labour's abandonment of their core support, the left is not their natural home and Labour's rediscovery of their raison d'etre  might mean that the SNP will have to start thinking of them as allies rather than adversaries sooner rather than later. 

And in response to previous posts, this is not football or Blur/Oasis tribalism. This is real life, and if a party is offering your kids (and you) free education and an affordable house along with secure, better-paid work and representation in that work, why the hell would you not vote for them, no matter what the label? Fúck what Corbyn looks like, or whether you'd shag McVey, what are the policies? Grow up, people, ffs!

You're aware the actual Scottish government already offers us those things champ?  And you're aware the labour party in Scotland have a clearly stated policy of we oppose every single SNP amendment and policy just because the SNP proposed them?  That's their actual position, they literally say that word for word regularly, so don't speak to me about fucking tribalism.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

New footage emerges of Jeremy Corbyn attending a ceremony alongside a known war criminal.

[Detournement]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

If the empty seats were reserved they were either not being used by the ticket holders or were free at least till York. Either way he was a numpty.

Or the train hadn't pulled out yet.

Leaving London is always going to be the busiest part of that journey.

[tirso]

clear as day this is a smear job.  

We're being invited to believe Corbyn is an anti-semite.   Aye okay, rightoh.

I'm amazed they've managed to get this amount of daily coverage.  Fair play to the schemers.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

You're aware the actual Scottish government already offers us those things champ?  And you're aware the labour party in Scotland have a clearly stated policy of we oppose every single SNP amendment and policy just because the SNP proposed them?  That's their actual position, they literally say that word for word regularly, so don't speak to me about fucking tribalism.

And of course you'll be aware* that, as a resident of England,I tend to view things on a national basis - national for now, at least. The SNP have profited massively from Blair and co. betraying the working class of Scotland, but at least they have a few decent left wingers, and some good policies. Come independence, they're far more likely to find support at Holyrood from Labour than they are from Ruth the Mooth and her crew.

*As I've been on here for over six years (without having to start a new account and username). The name is a bit of a giveaway...

[DublinMagyar]

And of course you'll be aware* that, as a resident of England,I tend to view things on a national basis - national for now, at least. The SNP have profited massively from Blair and co. betraying the working class of Scotland, but at least they have a few decent left wingers, and some good policies. Come independence, they're far more likely to find support at Holyrood from Labour than they are from Ruth the Mooth and her crew.

*As I've been on here for over six years (without having to start a new account and username). The name is a bit of a giveaway...

Labour were betraying Scotland long before Blair and co.

[JamieThomas]

I see Britain Elects has Labour with a 2 point lead in the polls. Looks like the Tory press are going to have to up their game and photoshop wee Corbs taking a shit on Uri Geller's front lawn now.

[dorlomin]

1 hour ago, JamieThomas said:

I see Britain Elects has Labour with a 2 point lead in the polls. 

It imbeciles that turn up trumping one poll to "prove" they are winning. 

 

 

 

 

Lets look at the long term tracker poll (again)

 

 

The two parties have been near enough the same spot for over a year, all within the standard error. 

 

Britain Elects latest poll tracker released on the 10th of August is 

 

Quote

The Britain Elects poll tracker has Labour finishing this week ahead of the Tories by just half a point: Lab: 38.9% (-) Con: 38.5% (-2.6) LDem: 9.1% (+1.0) UKIP: 5.8% (+2.5) Grn: 2.9% (-0.1)

Labour about 0.4% "ahead". 

Quote

. Looks like the Tory press are going to have to up their game and photoshop wee Corbs taking a shit on Uri Geller's front lawn now.

 

Its the same mentality as Trump, "lugenpresse". A conspiracy theory that all the press are against them because they are so awesome. Why no one buys papers supporting them tends to desolves into basically everyone is idiots and accepts the press lies rather than they are a relatively fringe group in the larger society. 

 

Its not popular to point out this is basically a crank conspiracy theory. If the press were so against the mainstream people would move to reading the Morning Star, but no one does because they are basically loonies. 

 

The most leftish of the high circulation press, the Daily Mirror has shown the most long term drop in circulation. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom_by_circulation#/media/File:UK_daily_newspaper_circulation_1950_present.svg