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Israel lobby v Corbyn


Jdog

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12 minutes ago, jupe1407 said:
1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:
So you’d prefer the Tories to win the next election?
 

If we achieve independence I couldn't give a single f**k who governs Westminster. However given that Corbyn is never going to topple the Tories, it's rather irrelevant.

Yeah but we’re not independent so the composition of the next U.K. government is going to impact upon us.  

So the question is still valid though you may prefer not to answer it.

 

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Corbyn's biggest mistake is in attempting to justify his actions and his beliefs to people who are not in the least bit interested and are just out to get him.

I firmly believe that it's high time he stopped apologising when no apology is required and instead called their bluff. 

Ironically if anti semitism is indeed on the rise then it's really not surprising as this attitude of "it's all about us" and "we're all that matters" from prominent Jews and the media is really starting to turn many against them and of course it seems it's certain Jews themselves who believe that socialism is incompatible with judaism and as such they're just fuelling the fire.............

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47 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Yeah but we’re not independent so the composition of the next U.K. government is going to impact upon us.  

So the question is still valid though you may prefer not to answer it.

 

You're not really doing well with this constant narrative. 

Corbyn is never going to be able to topple the Tories because he's an incompetent twat who has repeatedly done his level best to back the Tories in what's probably the most important thing happening in UK politics. He can't see beyond his own views to represent those of the people, and forces his MPs to take the same stance.

So this constant "who would you rather?" when people attack Labour and Corbyn is redundant. It's just whataboutery. 

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18 hours ago, pandarilla said:

I think you want a Blair type leader, with the sincere smile and inspiring slogans. Or perhaps an iron lady type who refuses to change?

I'm more than done with all that. Corbyn seems like a fairly honest and genuine old man, and id like to give that a go as prime minister.

 

16 hours ago, pandarilla said:

So what kind of leader do you suggest?

There's an awful lot of silly name calling with Corbyn but not much substance to the criticism.

I think we've been conditioned to think of strength and ruthlessness as excellent leadership qualities.

And you've obviously not seen Up. The old c**t turned out to be quite a good leader.

How about just a competent leader like Sturgeon or Salmond are/were? Which of your Blair / Iron Lady groupings do they fall in to?

There's plenty of substance to the criticism, the problem is that between the right wing scumbags smearing him in the opposition / media, and the cult of personalty that surrounds his support not listening to any of the critiscism, none of it is actually discussed. I agree with a lot of his policies, but he has comletely failed to unite the various factions within the Labour party, and as has been mentioned ad nauseam, his position and actions on Brexit have been nothing short of disgraceful.

If we can all agree that this current Tory government is beyond incompetent, that Brexit is an absolutely farcical idea, and that the abject shambles that they have made of it's implementation is an embarrassment, then it has to be accepted in conjunction that having provided absolutely no alternative of note, having Labour MPs ignore the whip to vote against his position, and choosing to abstain on numerous other important issues (not just including Brexit), means that he is as equally incompetent and shambolic as the Tory Government that he's supposed to oppose. The SNP have been the main opposition in Westminster since 2015, that does not reflect well on Labour or Corbyn.

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

So you’d prefer the Tories to win the next election?

 

You've gone with this a few times, but no one on this thread has stated that. Assuming you, Jupe, DA Baracus (the two I believe you asked) and I  are all still in favour of Scottish Independence, the likelihood is that we will be voting SNP (or Green) in elections until that happens. Assuming that's the case, does this mean that you prefer the Tories in the next election? Or is it more likely the case, that we would all prefer the Tories got a fucking pasting overall and never got in to Government again, but that similarly, Labour also get the fucking dicking they deserve up here due to the frankly heinous way they've treated the Scottish electorate, not just during 2014 and the years after, but in the neglect in the years prior also (monkey with a red rosette thinking)?

 Nobody in their right mind wants a Tory Government, that doesn't mean you can't think Labour are incompetent, shambolic wankstains at the same time.

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5 minutes ago, J_Stewart said:

You've gone with this a few times, but no one on this thread has stated that.

 Nobody in their right mind wants a Tory Government, that doesn't mean you can't think Labour are incompetent, shambolic wankstains at the same time.

The reason I have gone with it a few times (and will continue to) is because it is both valid and very important.

"I want Scottish Independence" is a fair and reasonable position, and one which I support myself, but it is not a valid response to "who would you prefer as the next UK government,  Labour or Tory?"

I may question Corbyn's position on Brexit and question his general leadership qualities but I would have him as PM before any of the Tory alternatives.

 

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Tbf uniting the Labour factions is probably going to be somewhat resolved when mandatory reselection is brought in. People will have to reflect the membership much more closely when they can't just swan back on to the ballot.

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2 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

While Labour MPs  vote with the Tories, or abstain, thereby helping the Tories drive forward the economic and social suicide that is Brexit, Corbyn swans off to Tunisia to a memorial ceremony for some dead terrorist/freedom fighter.

Now, that may appeal to those devoted to Corbyn's socialist cause, but to vast swathes of the country.....to the people he needs to support him in the next election....he simply looks like a 1970's student activist who has no real grasp on reality.

Corbyn reminds me of the skinny, specky guy who was Wolfie Smith's sidekick in the Tooting Popular Front. Who the f*ck would want this guy as PM ?

 

 

Completely agree with this - he has no intention of leading the country, or he'd stop putting himself in ridiculous  situations which just make him look like an arse to all except the devoted. How did he honestly think this would look to the outside, particularly his opponents? Still, at least the attack dogs will bite when he's again called out for something he's done. Not to mention the shambolic attempt at spin on this in the aftermath. 

Ultimately, Corbyn doesn't care about Brexit. He couldn't be arsed campaigning to staying in the EU to any proper degree, and doesn't want to put forward a serious alternative to the Tory position in case it won't allow him to nationalise the railways. 

All the meaningful oposition to the Tory brexit position comes from MPs in other parties, or Labour MPs in no position to do anything who will soon be deselected by the Corbynites anyway. 

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15 minutes ago, Mayor Wilkins III said:

You're not really doing well with this constant narrative. 

Corbyn is never going to be able to topple the Tories because he's an incompetent twat who has repeatedly done his level best to back the Tories in what's probably the most important thing happening in UK politics. He can't see beyond his own views to represent those of the people, and forces his MPs to take the same stance.

So this constant "who would you rather?" when people attack Labour and Corbyn is redundant. It's just whataboutery. 

Polls are bouncing about yet the latest one I saw put Labour 2 points clear of the Tories.  That is despite the unprecedented attacks being made against Corbyn.

So to suggest Labour cannot defeat the Tories is nonsense; and I don't think you know what 'whataboutery' means.

Personally I would love to see a scenario where Labour get about 290 seats and the SNP get 50+.

 

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Yeah but we’re not independent so the composition of the next U.K. government is going to impact upon us.  
So the question is still valid though you may prefer not to answer it.
 
An idiotic response. "If you don't like Labour, you must want a Tory Government". That's the "if you're no wan o us, you're wan o them" mentality of old firm fans. My hatred of the Tories and their policies is well documented on here as you are perfectly aware.

My dislike of labour is due to the contempt they've shown Scottish voters and the sheer ineptitude of them as an opposition in Westminster.

I repeat, f**k them.
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2 minutes ago, jupe1407 said:

An idiotic response. "If you don't like Labour, you must want a Tory Government". That's the "if you're no wan o us, you're wan o them" mentality of old firm fans. My hatred of the Tories and their policies is well documented on here as you are perfectly aware.

My dislike of labour is due to the contempt they've shown Scottish voters and the sheer ineptitude of them as an opposition in Westminster.

I repeat, f**k them.

 

Just now, williemillersmoustache said:

So you'd prefer Rangers* to win the league rather than Celtic

DoucheTurdSandwich.gif

There’s people in this country suffering, really suffering, due to the Tories’ austerity agenda.

So folk comparing Labour /Tory with Celtic/Rangers is both puerile and facile but an easy out if you don’t want to understand and debate the complexities.

 

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There’s people in this country suffering, really suffering, due to the Tories’ austerity agenda.
So folk comparing Labour /Tory with Celtic/Rangers is both puerile and facile but an easy out if you don’t want to understand and debate the complexities.
 
That was literally your laughable line of argument.
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8 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

 

There’s people in this country suffering, really suffering, due to the Tories’ austerity agenda.

So folk comparing Labour /Tory with Celtic/Rangers is both puerile and facile but an easy out if you don’t want to understand and debate the complexities.

No f**k right off Granny.

People are REALLY suffering because labour voted with the tories on things like Universal Credit, and labour made sure there was nothing the Scottish voter could do about it.

Even today we have that fucking dinosaur Brown lumbering across the Scottish press moaning about child poverty, and saying that the Scottish Government should tax us twice to alleviate the policies he made sure we could do f**k all about.

And that's before we even discuss what magical new welfare state Labour are going to create with the absolutely f**k all to spend we're going to have post-brexit.

 

You're asking us to indicate a preference between perceived evil & incompetence and just plain old incompetence.   And I won't, I'll have neither please and thank you.

Edited by williemillersmoustache
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5 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

 

There’s people in this country suffering, really suffering, due to the Tories’ austerity agenda.

So folk comparing Labour /Tory with Celtic/Rangers is both puerile and facile but an easy out if you don’t want to understand and debate the complexities.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I don't ever want to see a Conservative government.  Automatically in UK politics, that drives a narrative for Labour. I despise Labour. 

It really isn't a great basis to go forward with when you despise the party you'd prefer to see running the UK ahead of the completely unacceptable alternative. 

Until Scotland secures its independence, UK politics will always be the least worst option. Which is pish. This is why I want an early referendum.  We're getting heaved out of the EU by both of these sets of cvnts. Get them in the sea. If Scotland still shites the bed then we'll get the loosened up arsehole we all deserve. 

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1 minute ago, williemillersmoustache said:

No f**k right off Granny.

People are REALLY suffering because labour voted with the tories on things like Universal Credit, and labour made sure there was nothing the Scottish voter could do about it.

Even today we have that fucking dinosaur Brown lumbering across the Scottish press moaning about child poverty, and saying that the Scottish Government should tax us twice to alleviate the policies he made sure we could do f**k all about.

And that's before we even discuss what magical new welfare state Labour are going to create with the absolutely f**k all to spend we're going to have post-brexit.

 

You're asking us to indicate a preference between perceived evil & incompetence and just plain old incompetence.   And I won't, I'll have neither please and thank you.

You will have one or the other.  That is the sad reality.

It would be great if we had Independence and/or we could start the debate from a point of our chosing but we can't.  We have to accept the reality as it is until we can change it.

Anyway I think as far as jupe and you are concerned I will call it a day.

 

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You will have one or the other.  That is the sad reality.

It would be great if we had Independence and/or we could start the debate from a point of our chosing but we can't.  We have to accept the reality as it is until we can change it.

Anyway I think as far as jupe and you are concerned I will call it a day.

 

Spoken like a true United fan. Well done for giving up.

 

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1 minute ago, HTG said:

For the avoidance of doubt, I don't ever want to see a Conservative government.  Automatically in UK politics, that drives a narrative for Labour. I despise Labour. 

It really isn't a great basis to go forward with when you despise the party you'd prefer to see running the UK ahead of the completely unacceptable alternative. 

Until Scotland secures its independence, UK politics will always be the least worst option. Which is pish. This is why I want an early referendum.  We're getting heaved out of the EU by both of these sets of cvnts. Get them in the sea. If Scotland still shites the bed then we'll get the loosened up arsehole we all deserve. 

Can't disagree with any of that.  My only concern is losing another Referendum, if we do then we are fucked for a generation.  In that scenario I would hate to be a young person growing up in Scotland.

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17 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Can't disagree with any of that.  My only concern is losing another Referendum, if we do then we are fucked for a generation.  In that scenario I would hate to be a young person growing up in Scotland.

Me too but it's time to be bold and confront the situation. 

Sturgeon was very clear that a second referendum would only be on the cards in the event of significant change from the position in 2014. 

Brexit is a massive change and she's not going to ever have greater reason to go back out to the people. It needs to happen soon and whether it is lost or not, the real crime would be not to ask. 

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