Raising revenue

[Detournement]

An interesting looking book came out recently called 'Bullshit Jobs' which is about the way that modern capitalism supports increasing amounts of unproductive people.

www.vox.com/platform/amp/2018/5/8/17308744/bullshit-jobs-book-david-graeber-occupy-wall-street-karl-marx

People who do genuinely productive work these days are closely managed to ensure productivity. The problem in the UK is jobs that add no value beyond the purchasing power of the wages. Recruitment is the apotheosis of this, companies actively paying to have trained and experienced leave them.

[ICTChris]

18 hours ago, Detournement said:

An interesting looking book came out recently called 'Bullshit Jobs' which is about the way that modern capitalism supports increasing amounts of unproductive people.

www.vox.com/platform/amp/2018/5/8/17308744/bullshit-jobs-book-david-graeber-occupy-wall-street-karl-marx

People who do genuinely productive work these days are closely managed to ensure productivity. The problem in the UK is jobs that add no value beyond the purchasing power of the wages. Recruitment is the apotheosis of this, companies actively paying to have trained and experienced leave them.

My favourite thing about that is that the book about bullshit jobs that bemoans people doing stupid, pointless jobs that don't add anything to the economy was written by a Sociology professor.

[Guest]

That's the problem with being a nation that's become mostly a service industry as opposed to actually manufacturing anything, although I've often thought that the headline Economic figures are extremely misleading, firstly because London skewes everything and is a unique and separate economy from the rest of the UK and secondly because the low wages and high debt levels have masked the fact that much of the country and it's working population are barely above the bread line.

I don't think there's any doubt that years of QE, low interest rates and Government bailouts / rescue packages have in fact created a further wealth divide where the working class and middle classes have become much poorer whilst those at the top have used the system to become wealthier beyond even their own wildest dreams.

There's also no doubt that our public services are in serious decline and lacking funding whether it be our roads, our health service, our bus routes or whatever, higher taxation is undoubtedly required but of course that's not exactly a vote winner for any political party. Someone though, sooner or later, will have to bite the bullet and whether that be higher corporation tax (especially on the major players) or higher personal tax on the high earners, I don't know, but something will have to be done.

Another worry for the future, Brexit aside, is the closure of final salary and DB pension schemes will undoubtedly make the future generations substantially poorer in retirement than the current and past crop of pensioners and I don't believe anyone has even thought of this due to the current mantra of live for the day short termism.

Yes, the country is screwed I'm afraid.............

[Granny Danger]

8 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

That's the problem with being a nation that's become mostly a service industry as opposed to actually manufacturing anything, although I've often thought that the headline Economic figures are extremely misleading, firstly because London skewes everything and is a unique and separate economy from the rest of the UK and secondly because the low wages and high debt levels have masked the fact that much of the country and it's working population are barely above the bread line.

I don't think there's any doubt that years of QE, low interest rates and Government bailouts / rescue packages have in fact created a further wealth divide where the working class and middle classes have become much poorer whilst those at the top have used the system to become wealthier beyond even their own wildest dreams.

There's also no doubt that our public services are in serious decline and lacking funding whether it be our roads, our health service, our bus routes or whatever, higher taxation is undoubtedly required but of course that's not exactly a vote winner for any political party. Someone though, sooner or later, will have to bite the bullet and whether that be higher corporation tax (especially on the major players) or higher personal tax on the high earners, I don't know, but something will have to be done.

Another worry for the future, Brexit aside, is the closure of final salary and DB pension schemes will undoubtedly make the future generations substantially poorer in retirement than the current and past crop of pensioners and I don't believe anyone has even thought of this due to the current mantra of live for the day short termism.

Yes, the country is screwed I'm afraid.............

You paint a pretty grim picture.

We are surely as well off as other comparable countries (France, Germany) but I never read of them having an existential crisis.

 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

You paint a pretty grim picture.

We are surely as well off as other comparable countries (France, Germany) but I never read of them having an existential crisis.

 

Everything is relative I suppose, is the guy working on a zero hours minimum wage contract trying to feed and clothe his family well off ? or on the other hand is the CEO of the FTSE 100 company who also holds another 5 Directorships well off ??

I personally believe that the likes of France and Germany and most other countries in Europe tend to have a more equal spread of the wealth, where in this country we tend to follow the yanks with the boom or bust economic model.

The problem with the above is that sooner or later when the availability of cheap credit dries up, you have a situation where public spending slows dramatically due to the amount of people struggling to make ends meet as a result of years of wage freezes and wage reductions in real terms.

That's when the esteemed "analysts" tell us all we have a problem.............

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, WATTOO said:

Everything is relative I suppose, is the guy working on a zero hours minimum wage contract trying to feed and clothe his family well off ? or on the other hand is the CEO of the FTSE 100 company who also holds another 5 Directorships well off ??

I personally believe that the likes of France and Germany and most other countries in Europe tend to have a more equal spread of the wealth, where in this country we tend to follow the yanks with the boom or bust economic model.

The problem with the above is that sooner or later when the availability of cheap credit dries up, you have a situation where public spending slows dramatically due to the amount of people struggling to make ends meet as a result of years of wage freezes and wage reductions in real terms.

That's when the esteemed "analysts" tell us all we have a problem.............

It would be interesting to see if this is the case.  Decent comparisons not readily available through Google.

 

[Detournement]

Germany and France are on the same path as the UK just starting in different places. The stereotypical idea people have of the Germam labour market ended in 2003 with the Hartz reforms. Macron is following the same process.

 

[NotThePars]

My favourite thing about that is that the book about bullshit jobs that bemoans people doing stupid, pointless jobs that don't add anything to the economy is a Sociology professor.

Idk if my brain is fried but this looks like world salad to me.

[Guest]

Any Train drivers out there ?

I just wonder what the average wage of a train driver was in 1970 against the average wage of say a Banking Adviser and then compare like for like in the current day, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that it would be very interesting.

If only every union was as strong as the RMT..............

[Tutankhamen]

13 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

Any Train drivers out there ?

I just wonder what the average wage of a train driver was in 1970 against the average wage of say a Banking Adviser and then compare like for like in the current day, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that it would be very interesting.

If only every union was as strong as the RMT..............

My old man was an engine driver in 1970 working out of Polmadie depot on the London train. The wages were shite compared to the present day. Carlisle or Preston every night for about £40 a week. Virgin drivers today are on 50K a year.

Aye but you got a free pass, feckin so what. Or take the whole family to Ostende for a fiver, big deal if you don't have two bob for spending money when you arrive. Don't listen to Tory pish about unions in the 1970s, folk were fighting to get a living wage. Tory mob would be happy for the punters to remain living in high flats.

[HI HAT]

Its ASLEF that the vast majority of train drivers are members of. Train drivers have had decent pay rises since the 2000 but it has come at the consolidation of terms and conditions , a balance of how much are you willing to give up for what management are offering in pay increases.

[Ross.]

1 hour ago, WATTOO said:

Any Train drivers out there ?

I just wonder what the average wage of a train driver was in 1970 against the average wage of say a Banking Adviser and then compare like for like in the current day, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that it would be very interesting.

If only every union was as strong as the RMT..............

Define Banking Advisor. I have worked in that position for a couple of different banks and both entailed very different things. No idea what the salary is like now but when I left my last "BA" role around a decade ago, it was £13.5 to £17.5 basic dependent on experience, with a realistic bonus being around 10% of your salary, though many got no bonuses and a few were getting up to 25%.

[Guest]

Cheers guys, I've been a Union Rep in the Banking industry for the past 15 years or so and worked there a bit longer than that, in general the wages for frontline branch staff and call centre or buisness centre (back office) workers, is between £16k & £20k dependant on the Bank and your experience. There are some small bonuses still paid but as a rule these work out at under £1k p/a.

My point was really around the fact that those with strong unions have kept their salary increasing with inflation throughout the years, however those without have basically been left behind with salary, had their pensions destroyed and basically lost any number of perks, all so as to increase investor returns at any expense.

The fact that Banking & Insurance is our main industry tells you that competition has failed to push up wages for whatever reason and as everything is centred around major cities, you also have to factor in travelling expenses for those living in outlying areas, as such many are struggling on little more than the minimum wage which tells you that the economy is rather more fragile than many would have you believe.

As I said, hats of to the strong unions and their members for at least sticking up for themselves and ensuring that they're not treated as an mere inconvenience by their employers, if only others had done the same.......