Pyramid working group

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

It's not premature from the SJFA's point of view and it was for their members not the wider pyramid.

The story's gone from the west region being ripped up by a start up WoSFL and the juniors at death's door. To the entire SJFA being moved into the pyramid, meaning the East Juniors maybe jumped too early. There's only some very minor details to iron out 

Juniors suddenly have a nice positive spin on things.

It's not going to happen that way all the sjfa other promises went to pot

[FairWeatherFan]

1 hour ago, G4Mac said:

One can only assume that your tongue was firmly in your cheek when writing the above unless I am completely misreading your post? 

Not quite. It was a SJFA email telling the SJFA membership exactly what they want to hear. Particularly as he's trying to stave off a breakaway WoSFL from within the junior ranks. If it doesn't happen TJ can get away with saying he tried everything he could and it was the evil EoS & LL that put a stop to the plans.

9 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

It's not going to happen that way all the sjfa other promises went to pot

There's only one tiny bit of doubt I have. The SJFA said there would be a moratorium on licencing. That was widely derided as not happening and then it did.

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Not quite. It was a SJFA email telling the SJFA membership exactly what they want to hear. Particularly as he's trying to stave off a breakaway WoSFL from within the junior ranks. If it doesn't happen TJ can get away with saying he tried everything he could and it was the evil EoS & LL that put a stop to the plans.

There's only one tiny bit of doubt I have. The SJFA said there would be a moratorium on licencing. That was widely derided as not happening and then it did.

Yeh in the short term. We don't need to be licensed until next year.  They could wait to November or December to take applications it's for next season becoming a member in July doesn't change anything for us

[FairWeatherFan]

On 23/04/2018 at 17:57, Goalie Hamish said:

Gents

 

For information. Would have liked the response to be more robust however the information I have is that we are heading in the direction that will see us join the Pyramid – subject to an EGM – at a level no worse off than the EOS/SOS

 

Regards

 

Tom Johnston
Scottish Junior FA

 

 

 

 

 

Subject: Pyramid Group

 

 All,

 

Further to the above, there has been a considerable amount of conjecture since last Thursday’s Scottish FA Board meeting re this matter and, accordingly, I thought it would be helpful to clarify exactly what the Board agreed.

 

The Board of the Scottish FA discussed the matters that have been considered at the two Pyramid working groups with the most recent one having been chaired by myself.   They also considered certain specific concerns in this context that were raised with them by one of their members.  Finally they considered two requests for Scottish FA membership applications both of which were accepted and have now been referred to the licensing administration to progress in the normal course.

 

Given the ongoing uncertainty around finding a pyramid solution to bring the Juniors into the fold and the number of junior members that appear to be leaving without knowing what the pyramid solution is, it was agreed unanimously by the Scottish FA Board that it would not take any more membership applications until such time as this matter is resolved.   This ensures that all clubs are able to make informed decisions in the full knowledge of what the future landscape looks like; something that they are unable to do at present.

 

The Scottish FA President will be chairing this and will be reconvening the pyramid working group in early course to take this forward.   It is his and the Board of the Scottish FA’s wish that this can be resolved over the Summer allowing clubs to know what the situation is prior to the start of next season (noting that if any structural changes are agreed these would not come in until season 19-20).   If matters are resolved in this timescale it will only be one Board meeting (June)  where the Board are not considering applications for membership which should not cause any issues for clubs given the length of time it then takes to work through the process to gain full membership.

 

Alan, will be in touch in early course to set up a meeting.

 

Kind regards

 

Andrew McKinlay

 

Interim Chief Executive

 

Scottish Football Association

Going by Bluebell1's earlier post the licencing moratorium might still be in place, and as we know the situation hasn't been resolved. Hopefully everything keeps to the Summer time scale and this can all be resolved sooner than later.

Burnie mentioned an EoS meeting on Monday. Ideally we'll get some news on the non-league senior take on the PWG meeting. The last time this happened plenty of holes were found in TJ's take on things.

[Guest]

Yep I had read your post right. I agree that this appears to be tj's tact here. I think there will be a wosfl but I sincerely hope the sjfa have nowt to do with it. That would be a bit like taking over a failing business then keeping the same management in charge to run it..... 

With the licence embargo, in any panicked scatter gun of negativity approach there will always be one bullet that hits it mark..... I would be stunned if this isnt the case here. 

[Salvo Montalbano]

"Junior inclusion at tier 6" - for whom? All the juniors? That won't work as there are too many in the West, teams in the East who would then in theory be at a higher level than the teams who left this year, and still no outcome for the North. I'm pretty sure what he means is "West Superleague Junior inclusion at Tier 6" and even if that is the case it throws up plenty of issues. What happens to teams who don't want to turn senior? What happens to reinstatement and disciplinary matters? Can the Junior league be finished in time to take part in a play off? What happens to the Junior Cup? This sounds to me like more wishful thinking in order to stop the bigger West Juniors forming their own breakaway WoSL as soon as they can.

[honestly united]

31 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

"Junior inclusion at tier 6" - for whom? All the juniors? That won't work as there are too many in the West, teams in the East who would then in theory be at a higher level than the teams who left this year, and still no outcome for the North. I'm pretty sure what he means is "West Superleague Junior inclusion at Tier 6" and even if that is the case it throws up plenty of issues. What happens to teams who don't want to turn senior? What happens to reinstatement and disciplinary matters? Can the Junior league be finished in time to take part in a play off? What happens to the Junior Cup? This sounds to me like more wishful thinking in order to stop the bigger West Juniors forming their own breakaway WoSL as soon as they can.

If any WoS league is set up, there has to be some inclusion of junior teams or you dont have a WoS league at a decent level. You could just have Clydebank asking to join and Girvan being told by the SFA if they want to keep their licence joining and its then still junior inclusion at Tier 6!!

To be fair it looks like all TJ is worried about is getting a good deal for the big west clubs so that is who he is referring to as Junior inclusion at Tier 6, so whether it be an SFA run WoS that is open to applications, or the West Region gets bolted on as another feeder to the LL that's the inclusion.

Also, the great steps forward could be the SJFA have been given a list of things that need to change (fixtures, disciplinary etc etc) if they want to run a WoS league that is part of the Pyramid (and maybe a NoS also). The rest of the PWG might just have got him telt and he has finally listened and agreed to the changes, (as the only way to keep his job) and he will fall in line. Until the detail emerges no one will know. 

[Burnie_man]

38 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

"Junior inclusion at tier 6" - for whom? All the juniors? That won't work as there are too many in the West, teams in the East who would then in theory be at a higher level than the teams who left this year, and still no outcome for the North. I'm pretty sure what he means is "West Superleague Junior inclusion at Tier 6" and even if that is the case it throws up plenty of issues. What happens to teams who don't want to turn senior? What happens to reinstatement and disciplinary matters? Can the Junior league be finished in time to take part in a play off? What happens to the Junior Cup? This sounds to me like more wishful thinking in order to stop the bigger West Juniors forming their own breakaway WoSL as soon as they can.

Agreed, that's my initial thoughts. His only real concern at the end of the day is his pals in the West.

Either way, it really is time for the SFA to publish a statement after every one of these PWG meetings setting out what discussions were had, and what was agreed to be carried forward to the next meeting.  This has a major impact on clubs and the game as a whole and it shouldn't be left to rumours and whispers, and spurious claims from TJ.

[stanley]

Will have to wait until details are actually revealed.  Too many questions at the moment.

Does this mean that Cumbernauld Colts have to turn junior if they are relegated from the Lowland League?

Could ask ten other important questions right now but I'd only be going over ground already covered.

[Kilbowie Benches]

The SJFA would need to become like the EoSFA and come directly under SFA control.

[Burnie_man]

9 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

The SJFA would need to become like the EoSFA and come directly under SFA control.

There is absolutely no place for the SJFA to enter the Pyramid.

Yes, the West Juniors can move en-masse and become the WoSFL. Yes the North Juniors can move en-masse to become the NoSFL, but they affiliate directly with the SFA and operate in the same manner as the EoS, SoS, LL, HL, there is no longer a need in that circumstance for the SJFA to exist.

It only exists by remaining outside the Pyramid and working with those clubs who do not want to go Senior, and there will be some.  If there isn't, then cheerio.

SFA - EoSFL

SFA - WoSFL

SFA - SFJA - WRJFA?????

[stanley]

49 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

The SJFA would need to become like the EoSFA and come directly under SFA control.

Then how would they still be juniors?  Surely they either have their own junior pyramid or they are part of the senior pyramid and are senior clubs?

[Kilbowie Benches]

There’s no reason why the SJFA can’t just  exist as the EoSFA does surely? 

[FairWeatherFan]

19 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

There’s no reason why the SJFA can’t just  exist as the EoSFA does surely? 

The EoSFA is basically the ERSJFA.

SFA - EoSFA

SFA - SJFA - ERSJFA

The SJFA as a body isn't really required as the SFA covers that role and its the regions that administer the day to day.

Once incorporated into the pyramid the SJFA becomes more like the Fife, Stirlingshire, Ayrshire FA's "We've got a cup!". It'd probably be better for the SFA to take on that role as well, at the very least it might attract a sponsor.

[Kilbowie Benches]

28 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The EoSFA is basically the ERSJFA.

SFA - EoSFA

SFA - SJFA - ERSJFA

The SJFA as a body isn't really required as the SFA covers that role and its the regions that administer the day to day.

Once incorporated into the pyramid the SJFA becomes more like the Fife, Stirlingshire, Ayrshire FA's "We've got a cup!". It'd probably be better for the SFA to take on that role as well, at the very least it might attract a sponsor.

SFA - EoSFA - EoSFL same thing?

[Cyclizine]

You can certainly see the possibility of continued roles for WRJFA and NRJFA in any new structure. There's no obvious need for the SJFA as a separate organisation, particularly since SJFA regulations will have to be aligned with those of the SFA, making the SJFA totally superfluous.

[Kilbowie Benches]

Just now, Cyclizine said:

You can certainly see the possibility of continued roles for WRJFA and NRJFA in any new structure. There's no obvious need for the SJFA as a separate organisation, particularly since SJFA regulations will have to be aligned with those of the SFA, making the SJFA totally superfluous.

The EoSFA still exists though?

[FairWeatherFan]

13 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

SFA - EoSFA - EoSFL same thing?

Basically

Someone can probably break it down better than I could. The league's the league, the association's the cups and possibly the u20s since they involve clubs outwith the league.

[Cyclizine]

4 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

The EoSFA still exists though?

Aye, as a regional sub-entity of the SFA. That's why I can see the North and West Junior regions continuing (maybe under different names) - it's hard to see how a nationwide SJFA is needed in any new structure, what would their actual role be?

[Salvo Montalbano]

I'd imagine that there would still be an SJFA (and possibly WRJFA and ERJFA) of any clubs didn't fancy the pyramid/turning senior but I can't see how they can run that and still be part of the senior pyramid.