ICTChris Posted August 3, 2022 Author Share Posted August 3, 2022 57 minutes ago, virginton said: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/03/cocaine-and-opiates-drive-record-high-drug-deaths-in-england-and-wales A sevenfold increase in cocaine deaths, bloody hell. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 Quote Niamh Eastwood, the executive director of the charity Release, said every drug-related death could be prevented if the UK implemented drug policy reform, which includes the decriminalisation of drug possession. Eastwood added: “Decriminalisation of drug possession – which would end the criminal sanctions for possession of drugs – must be core to any policy that seeks to protect the health and wellbeing of people who use drugs, from young people who are experimenting to those who use drugs to cope with trauma and mental health problems.” I don't really get this. Cocaine is so easy to buy now it might as well be legal. What difference would decriminalisation make? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted August 3, 2022 Author Share Posted August 3, 2022 41 minutes ago, Detournement said: I don't really get this. Cocaine is so easy to buy now it might as well be legal. What difference would decriminalisation make? Does the illegality of drugs impact the ability of drug addicts to get treatment? I do not know the answer to this question but I have to doubt it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Detournement said: I don't really get this. Cocaine is so easy to buy now it might as well be legal. What difference would decriminalisation make? Im jumping in a bit, and thats a fair point, but i wonder if it makes it easier to admit to having a problem with it to support networks like close friends and family rather than feeling compelled to "hide" it. Edit: speaking personally if i was hooked on booze id, if i was self aware enough about it, be more comfortable admitting it to my parents than if i was constantly rattling the ching, i doubt they'd be as understanding. It feels like a stretch because anecdotally a friend of mine has a work colleague that is blatantly a coke addict (people regularly show up to his work in big suv's looking for the guy saying he owes them money etc, also the guy comes in sometimes to work high as a kite and is probably getting the sack soon) so its normally pretty darn obvious when someone is hooked on gear anyway, but it might make a marginal difference in uptake of existing support if there was less stigma. Edit: resource allocation too, come to think of it. Less wasted effort, money and time on policing, court proceedings etc. that could theoretically go elsewhere Edited August 3, 2022 by Thistle_do_nicely 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Detournement said: I don't really get this. Cocaine is so easy to buy now it might as well be legal. What difference would decriminalisation make? How much of that is decent /clean drug and how much is cut to f**k with all the shite of the day? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Alert Mongoose said: Does it actually reference volume of drug use anywhere? Are we actually taking more drugs than other countries or just suffering more severe consequences. Didn't have time to read the whole thing. I'd like to know this too, and how much zero quality control and random purity and contamination levels are responsible for deaths. Like taking a purer version of heroin after your last dose was weak, but doubling the amount. The death rates per user in Peru would be interesting, for example, or maybe Portugal. Edited August 3, 2022 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alert Mongoose Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 2 hours ago, welshbairn said: I'd like to know this too, and how much zero quality control and random purity and contamination levels are responsible for deaths. Like taking a purer version of heroin after your last dose was weak, but doubling the amount. The death rates per user in Peru would be interesting, for example, or maybe Portugal. I am having trouble believing that the use of cocaine is measurably greater in Scotland than other countries. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSaints1877 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Alert Mongoose said: I am having trouble believing that the use of cocaine is measurably greater in Scotland than other countries. It’s all based on population ratio, related crimes, police seizures and user surveys. Open to debate. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-13898046 From 2011. “Among the statistics is an analysis of each country, with Scotland shown as having the world's highest percentage of people using cocaine at 3.9%. The equivalent figure for the United States was 2.4%. The figures also suggested Scotland had the highest rates of consumption of heroin (1.59%), cannabis (8.4%), amphetamines (1.4%) and ecstasy (2.5%) of all nations in the UK.” https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/scotland-tops-global-drug-survey-cocaine-consumption-1429699 “People in Scotland consume roughly double the global average of cocaine in a single session – 1.2 grams compared with 0.5 grams. It should be noted that purity may well be significant here.” - 2018. https://www.addictionhelper.com/drugs/cocaine/un-scotland-serious-problem-cocaine-ecstasy/ Other areas that we have topped the charts historically include Knife crime, Murder, heart disease to name but three. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSaints1877 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 This report with detailed charts is particularly damning. “Nowhere in Europe do more people die from drug abuse than in Scotland. This sad record is the result of social problems, political failure – and a deadly mix of heroin, cocaine and street Valium.” https://www.nzz.ch/english/glasgow-is-center-of-scotlands-drug-epidemic-ld.1642046 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSaints1877 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 https://www.scotpho.org.uk/behaviour/drugs/data/availability-and-prevalence/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 12 hours ago, Detournement said: I don't really get this. Cocaine is so easy to buy now it might as well be legal. What difference would decriminalisation make? Well they'd get help rather than a criminal record for having drugs on their person. I would legalise but there's no doubt in my mind decriminalisation as a start would help. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 10 hours ago, Alert Mongoose said: I am having trouble believing that the use of cocaine is measurably greater in Scotland than other countries. I was at a venue last week. I had to pass two toilets before I could get in for a pish. There appeared to be as many in the lavvies as in the hall. It is rife, I don't know why here so much, but it is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted August 4, 2022 Author Share Posted August 4, 2022 5 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: I was at a venue last week. I had to pass two toilets before I could get in for a pish. There appeared to be as many in the lavvies as in the hall. It is rife, I don't know why here so much, but it is. Maybe everyone there really needed a shite. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 4 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: I was at a venue last week. I had to pass two toilets before I could get in for a pish. There appeared to be as many in the lavvies as in the hall. It is rife, I don't know why here so much, but it is. I remember having a shite in a club bog in London with a queue of people outside raging that I would do such a thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathematics Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 (edited) Did we not try to introduce safe drug treatment/use clinics a couple of years back but the UK government ruled that we couldn’t? Edited August 4, 2022 by mathematics 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alert Mongoose Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: I was at a venue last week. I had to pass two toilets before I could get in for a pish. There appeared to be as many in the lavvies as in the hall. It is rife, I don't know why here so much, but it is. I don't doubt that but I do doubt had the venue been in England that the situation would have been markedly different. ETA - it wasn't a George Michael tribute concert was it? Edited August 4, 2022 by Alert Mongoose 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, The Moonster said: Well they'd get help rather than a criminal record for having drugs on their person. I would legalise but there's no doubt in my mind decriminalisation as a start would help. How many people get charged with basic drug possession? Personal use amounts are usually just a caution. Edited August 4, 2022 by Detournement 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Alert Mongoose said: I don't doubt that but I do doubt had the venue been in England that the situation would have been markedly different. ETA - it wasn't a George Michael tribute concert was it? He knew I was waiting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 39 minutes ago, Detournement said: How many people get charged with basic drug possession? Personal use amounts are usually just a caution. I don't have the numbers, I'm sure they'll be available online. Folk who get caught continually with the same drugs might not just get away with a caution, and if heavy user is buying in bulk for themselves they may be not be lucky either. The fact is having stuff like that on their record limits what they might be able to do, is it not better we just remove that, if we agree its that wide spread it should probably just be legal anyway? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 Legalisation isn't just about not charging users, it's about pharmacists setting the strength and quality rather than some guy in his kitchen, taking the trade away from criminals and stopping the destabilisation of producer countries. Along with making it far easier to help addicts. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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