Drug deaths in Scotland hit record high

[parsforlife]

2 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

shouting slogans like tough on crime instead etc etc etc. 

This slogan has so much success.  And those that support it  have revenge fantasy’s about what they’d do to someone who commits a crime.   

“Preventing crime by properly supporting offenders,  addressing the issues that result in them committing criminal acts and allowing them to become a positive part of a progressive society” doesn’t really cut through.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

People are missing the elephant in the room here - relative poverty, deprivation and widening inequalities are important factors behind our drug problem.

That's not saying those who are at the margins will become drug addicts but that they are at greater risk than other parts of society.

Until you seriously tackle those issues there will always be a drug problem.

[mizfit]

My partner works for a charity who helps people get into houses, get clean from drink/drugs and move on with their life.
Exactly what Deetillehdeh says. She told me last night whilst watching the news on it that all the people she’s encountered who are heavily into hardcore drugs like heroin or PCP’s have one thing in common. Poverty.

We can legalise drugs, encourage safe consumption rooms and provide Noloxone to every paramedic to use but until we tackle the societal issues we will never do away with this issue.

[ICTJohnboy]

Iain Dale show just starting on LBC. He is inviting calls on the Scottish drug deaths situation, to discuss why the SNP aren't effectively dealing with this matter.

Could be interesting!

[welshbairn]

1339 drug related deaths doesn't sound like a huge amount to me, considering there are no quality controls over manufacture or what they're mixed with. I realise it's far worse than most other countries but regulation and legalisation has to be the way to quickly bring that figure way down.

[ICTJohnboy]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

1339 drug related deaths doesn't sound like a huge amount to me, considering there are no quality controls over manufacture or what they're mixed with. I realise it's far worse than most other countries but regulation and legalisation has to be the way to quickly bring that figure way down.

 

A retired GP I met some years ago who had a senior position within the NHS once explained to me that the reason Scotland was at the bottom of any league table concerned with deaths from heart disease, was that these were much more accurately recorded, and documented in Scotland compared to other parts of the UK/Europe. He never believed that deaths from heart disease were any worse in Scotland than anywhere else.

Could something similar be happening with the compiling of drugs related death stats in Scotland?

 

[Aubrey Maturin]

13 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

1339 drug related deaths doesn't sound like a huge amount to me, considering there are no quality controls over manufacture or what they're mixed with. I realise it's far worse than most other countries but regulation and legalisation has to be the way to quickly bring that figure way down.

Absolute drivel.  The volume of drug deaths over the years is horrendous.

Just now, ICTJohnboy said:

 

A retired GP I met some years ago who had a senior position within the NHS once explained to me that the reason Scotland was at the bottom of any league table concerned with deaths from heart disease, was that these were much more accurately recorded, and documented in Scotland compared to other parts of the UK/Europe. He never believed that deaths from heart disease were any worse in Scotland than anywhere else.

Could something similar be happening with the compiling of drugs related death stats in Scotland?

 

No, just look at the sheer volume of people parked on substitute prescriptions and left to basically get on with it.  

The lack of behavioural support, social support in this country is horrendous.

Our stats are horrendous because our half arsed attempts over the last 50 years to manage addiction is pathetic.

The Scottish government's flag ship Road to Recovery policy has  been a dismal failure and they should be embarrassed by their efforts in managing addiction issues in this country.

[Bairnardo]

7 minutes ago, Tynierose said:

Absolute drivel.  The volume of drug deaths over the years is horrendous.

No, just look at the sheer volume of people parked on substitute prescriptions and left to basically get on with it.  

The lack of behavioural support, social support in this country is horrendous.

Our stats are horrendous because our half arsed attempts over the last 50 years to manage addiction is pathetic.

The Scottish government's flag ship Road to Recovery policy has  been a dismal failure and they should be embarrassed by their efforts in managing addiction issues in this country.

It probably doesn't help that we have a population (and I cant speak for places other than the UK if its any different) that views addiction as weakness, shameful etc. Seeking help is a stigma in itself, not just for addiction either and lets face it, theres a mental health piece involved here with the causes of drug abuse in the first place. 

[welshbairn]

So what are they doing in England and Wales that we aren't?

[ICTJohnboy]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

So what are they doing in England and Wales that we aren't?

 

Probably failing to accurately record the cause of death on death certificates.

[DiegoDiego]

So what are they doing in England and Wales that we aren't?

Probably need to ask that question in the past tense. The root causes of these deaths go back decades.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, DiegoDiego said:

9 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

So what are they doing in England and Wales that we aren't?

Probably need to ask that question in the past tense. The root causes of these deaths go back decades.

I was thinking the same, but there's talk in the papers that we're especially bad at mixing together various prescription and black market drugs into lethal cocktails, along with alcohol chasers.

[SANTAN]

14 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

Probably failing to accurately record the cause of death on death certificates.

 

[Derry Alli]

27 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I was thinking the same, but there's talk in the papers that we're especially bad at mixing together various prescription and black market drugs into lethal cocktails, along with alcohol chasers.

There was a drug in Dundee only a few knew of and tried. It was called 67. (It was invented in Lochee). It was a horrific mixture of drugs and the one guy I seen on it genuinely terrified me watching him after only a couple lines. Stone solid, no movement in his eyes or body and he said it was like his world become almost through a pin hole size. 

One trip for him was enough, I bottled it. They stopped mixing it after a few weeks. 

[Sergeant Wilson]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Alli said:

There was a drug in Dundee only a few knew of and tried. It was called 67. (It was invented in Lochee). It was a horrific mixture of drugs and the one guy I seen on it genuinely terrified me watching him after only a couple lines. Stone solid, no movement in his eyes or body and he said it was like his world become almost through a pin hole size. 

One trip for him was enough, I bottled it. They stopped mixing it after a few weeks. 

Are they like wine producers mixing grapes they expect to work together, or is it just availability of ingredients, topped up with Omo and Angel Delight?

[ConcernedReferee]

20 hours ago, parsforlife said:

Is there any legal procedure around how safe the drug someone is supplying is?

I.e are you given a worse sentence if you sell street valium rather than pharmaceutical?

It's a good question and raises the issue of how illegal it would be to sell talcum powder to coke heads 

[strichener]

On 30/07/2021 at 08:53, The Moonster said:

What's it going to take to reform drug laws in this country? Genuinely want to know what the tipping point is because we've been beyond what is acceptable for most of my life and nobody seems to give a f**k aside from when these articles hit the news and we get every politician telling us how terrible it is, but do absolutely f**k all to change it. Depressing. 

It's not the drugs laws that needs changed.  From personal experience, it is access to drug services and the entirety of what those services offer.  Had a family member addicted to heroin and I approached our GP who's advice was to make sure that I purchased the drugs from a reliable source until treatment could be provided.  Never in my life did I imagine that I would be paying out money to a drug dealer to see someone through the 6 weeks it took for them to get prescribed a substitute.  It is to this country's shame that it puts normally law abiding people into a situation such as this.

Of course getting onto the way the drug treatment is provided is just as depressing.  Yes they prescribe alternatives such as methadone or buprenorphine but that appears to be the extent of the service.  There is no help or assistance provided as part of the treatment to determine the root causes or to help with all the other problems that go with drug addiction such as money issues, job help or even keeping a roof over your head.  There are services for people to help with all these issues but unfortunately they are all separate and depend on a barely functioning drug user to not only know where they are for support but also to arrange it etc.  In rural locations this is compounded by public transport being unaffordable for these people.  

Sorry for my rant but this call for changes to the drugs laws is, in my experience, a red herring and only joined up social, medical and physiological support will make any difference to the ability of users to make the life changes that they need to kick the habit.

[The Moonster]

17 minutes ago, strichener said:

It's not the drugs laws that needs changed.  From personal experience, it is access to drug services and the entirety of what those services offer.  Had a family member addicted to heroin and I approached our GP who's advice was to make sure that I purchased the drugs from a reliable source until treatment could be provided.  Never in my life did I imagine that I would be paying out money to a drug dealer to see someone through the 6 weeks it took for them to get prescribed a substitute.  It is to this country's shame that it puts normally law abiding people into a situation such as this.

Of course getting onto the way the drug treatment is provided is just as depressing.  Yes they prescribe alternatives such as methadone or buprenorphine but that appears to be the extent of the service.  There is no help or assistance provided as part of the treatment to determine the root causes or to help with all the other problems that go with drug addiction such as money issues, job help or even keeping a roof over your head.  There are services for people to help with all these issues but unfortunately they are all separate and depend on a barely functioning drug user to not only know where they are for support but also to arrange it etc.  In rural locations this is compounded by public transport being unaffordable for these people.  

Sorry for my rant but this call for changes to the drugs laws is, in my experience, a red herring and only joined up social, medical and physiological support will make any difference to the ability of users to make the life changes that they need to kick the habit.

All of those issues are a result of drugs being illegal. If the government could fully regulate the drugs your GP would prescribe it and you wouldn't have to go to a shady dealer. When we stop making these users criminals we can properly support them.

[strichener]

6 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

All of those issues are a result of drugs being illegal. If the government could fully regulate the drugs your GP would prescribe it and you wouldn't have to go to a shady dealer. When we stop making these users criminals we can properly support them.

What?  Do you know the process just now to get onto a substitute?  The idea that you would rock up to the GP and he would prescribe you heroin or any other class A drug is utterly fanciful. 

How would this work?  You make an appointment with your GP on a Thursday so that he can prescribe some eccies for the festival that you are going to the following day?

People using drugs are looking for the instant hit not waiting for doctors appointments.

Alcohol is legal, freely available and yet you still have alcoholics.  legalising highly addictive drugs will not stop there being drug addicts.

[The Moonster]

3 minutes ago, strichener said:

What?  Do you know the process just now to get onto a substitute?  The idea that you would rock up to the GP and he would prescribe you heroin or any other class A drug is utterly fanciful. 

How would this work?  You make an appointment with your GP on a Thursday so that he can prescribe some eccies for the festival that you are going to the following day?

People using drugs are looking for the instant hit not waiting for doctors appointments.

Alcohol is legal, freely available and yet you still have alcoholics.  legalising highly addictive drugs will not stop there being drug addicts.

Honestly mate, just read up on decriminalisation and you'll see the support on offer. GPs can't help you because they have no control over it, you need to qualify for methadone or you get nothing.