Drug deaths in Scotland hit record high

[yoda]

There's a lot of layers to it. A lot of the drug related deaths can probably be linked to the deindustrialisation of the 70s and 80s. Similar to the opioid crisis in Rust Belt USA. But obviously the SNP haven't appeared to effectively tackle drug abuse and the various factors that contribute to it (neither have Westminster though).

But then how do realistically* you tackle it? Legalisation and regulation doesn't really solve the issue at hand. 

*I mean it's obvious how you solve the problem in an ideal world but nobody has the desire or political will to do it because, erm, money 

[The Moonster]

Just now, yoda said:

But then how do realistically* you tackle it? Legalisation and regulation doesn't really solve the issue at hand. 

It solves the issue of people burning Fentanyl off patches and injecting it into their veins. It solves the problem of drug users having their criminal record marked and opportunities removed. 

Obviously legalisation and regulation doesn't solve it on it's own, but it will reduce the effects and hopefully save lives. That alongside a proper support programme as Tynie has said above is what we need. Slapping folk with fines for possession or throwing them in jail makes things worse, I don't think legalisation and regulation does.

[yoda]

Yes I worded that poorly. Obviously it would help but as one part of a wide ranging approach. There's a few folk (not you, as you've clearly put a lot of thought into it) who seem to think that legalisation and decriminalisation solves everything and it'll all be fine.

 

[Rob1885]

There's a lot of layers to it. A lot of the drug related deaths can probably be linked to the deindustrialisation of the 70s and 80s. Similar to the opioid crisis in Rust Belt USA. But obviously the SNP haven't appeared to effectively tackle drug abuse and the various factors that contribute to it (neither have Westminster though).
But then how do realistically* you tackle it? Legalisation and regulation doesn't really solve the issue at hand. 
*I mean it's obvious how you solve the problem in an ideal world but nobody has the desire or political will to do it because, erm, money 

If Covid has shown us anything, it's that theres money there and shouldn't be used as an excuse for not tackling such important issues.

[Detournement]

The death figures are simply a reflection of how many addicts there are. If a person is on Methadone with no plans to ever come off it then they will eventually end up as a drug death statistic. It is an inevitability. 

Rehabilitation is obviously the way to bring those figures down but it's never going to work while the UK economy is structured in a way that renders millions of people superfluous and worthless as relapsing will be highly likely.

As is also the case with these kind of social problems addicts are a lucrative industry for lots people and create jobs which fund middle class lifestyles. Turkeys don't vote for christmas.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Detournement

[101]

25 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

That fragile economy could be helped massively if the UK decided to legalise weed, considering it was responsible for precisely 0 of the deaths being reported here

Providing it was grown in the UK I would fully support that and support similar to that that is offered for alcohol and fags is in place before legalisation.

33 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Not disputing any of that but the fact that we are 3.5times more than rest of UK is not the sole fault of the UK Government

Of course not, however the SG will fight this with at least one hand tied behind its back. It annoys me that a government has an excuse of say "but they wont let us  etc etc." but that for me it the point of independence we can hold them to account, over this and a whole host of other issues.

27 minutes ago, Tynierose said:

Parking people on substitute prescriptions does  not work, we have been doing that for nearly 30 years.

Its about behavioural change through effective support, education, job opportunities.   

That does not mean sending someone to the chemist every morning for methadone and that's job done.

The amount of deaths due to poly drug use that has methadone included is substantial.

Its too simplistic to say give methadone and all will be well.  

Completely agree, job opportunities are going to look different and there will be a whole sectors that will disappear or vastly scale down once we have left the EU. The problem we have in Scotland is most addicts will have some sort of conviction, there needs to be wholesale changes so that once people are no longer a threat to society or have served their time that employers can no longer discriminate against them. I'm sure all this will be coming in one form or another from the taskforce but their work needs to be sped up but lets be honest none of this will change in a year its going to take decades to actually get us to where we want to be.

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, 101 said:

Providing it was grown in the UK I would fully support that and support similar to that that is offered for alcohol and fags is in place before legalisation.

In the last week alone we've seen calls in a national paper for Scottish farmers to start growing it - https://www.thenational.scot/news/18928842.scottish-farmers-should-grow-medical-cannabis/

Legislation already allows them to grow medicinal cannabis so I don't see growing it here being a problem. I'd argue we need better support programmes than what we have in place for alcohol and tobacco though.

[Thistle_do_nicely]

25 minutes ago, Detournement said:

The death figures are simply a reflection of how many addicts there are. If a person is on Methadone with no plans to ever come off it then they will eventually end up as a drug death statistic. It is an inevitability. 

Rehabilitation is obviously the way to bring those figures down but it's never going to work while the UK economy is structured in a way that renders millions of people superfluous and worthless as relapsing will be highly likely.

As is also the case with these kind of social problems addicts are a lucrative industry for lots people and create jobs which fund middle class lifestyles. Turkeys don't vote for christmas.

anecdotal but ive heard a few people through the years seethe about "muh tax money going to buy methadone for junkies"

it's a depressing thought so i hope im off the mark but im not sure the political will is there to do anything meaningful about it - paraphrasing that quote from The Wire but "drug addicts don't vote".

[Boo Khaki]

Parking folk on Methadone is criminal.

I've spoken about this before on here, but the number of former IV users I work with who live a sort of zombie trance-like existence on a combination of Methadone, Benzodiazepines, psychiatric drugs, and whatever recreationals or alcohol takes their fancy...

They are totally dysfunctional with regards to anything approaching a worthwhile life, but any time one of them expresses dissatisfaction to a professional it's met with a wall of 'aye, but at least you're no on the junk any more, eh?" as if that's the only thing that they should be living for.

It's not the fault of any one particular individual with duty of care, but the entire system is now just 'fire and forget'.

[D.A.F.C]

This is so sad.
A national disgrace.

[Granny Danger]

This is shocking and unacceptable.  The legislative control for the issue must be moved from Westminster to Holyrood and then the SG must look to introduce more innovative approaches.  Surely this is an issue where we can/should be looking at successful strategies in other countries.

 

[madwullie]

On 15/10/2020 at 21:26, gerasimus said:

Scotland? Have you seen the statistics in Japan? This number is well above Scottish records. I am afraid for my country and the victims that occur every day because of drugs. I was very worried when I got behind the wheel earlier, I almost had panic attacks and I didn't know what to do with it, but my driving instructor said that this is a fairly common problem and advised me to try it LINK REMOVED. It does not affect the quality of driving and does not cloud the mind, as, for example, cannabis and cbd oil. And it really helped me, I passed the exam well and got my license, and eventually I stopped being afraid of roads and traffic at all

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Cardinal Richelieu

[John Lambies Doos]

My daughter was informed by a consultant in RAH that Inverclyde has the highest number of intravenous drug users in the country.

Pretty obvious that statement.
That's like saying Prisons have the highest number of criminals in Scotland

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Pigeonholing the demographic of P&B would be nigh on impossible without years of studeous research and analysis. Just listing the Poster categories would be a tough ask....
VLs, perverts, Alcoholics, insomniacs, bigots, serial killers, Da's, puddle drinkers, psychopaths, sociopaths, narcissists, drug users (various scales of usage), pseudo intellectuals, Communists, Fascists, Socialists, Centrists, Conservatives, Nationalists......this list is non exhaustive!

You drink one bloody puddle and nobody lets you forget it

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

9 hours ago, Turkmenbashi said:

I believe, someone can correct me if I am wrong, that it is because Scotland counts every death which could be caused by drugs (ie car crash with driver being on cocaine or aids caused by needle sharing etc), whereas others count those purely caused by drugs and nothing else. If I remember correctly, other nations would look worse this way, but we still likely be the worst overall.

Yes, iv seen deaths whereby there was evidence of recent drug use, even cannabis initially counted. That said theres a more significant issue than heroin overdosing and thats people dying after abusing fake diazepam tablets (etizolam) have a look at the correlation between the mass illicit availability of these tablets and the rise in drugs deaths, absolutely one of the biggest drivers. 

Agree that we are disadvantaged by westminsters absolute unwillingness to allow for safe consumption rooms for iv use etc. Decriminalise minor possession and prescribe safe regulated doses for those in consumption rooms. Invest in rehab and public health education etc. That will scratch the surface but until you deal with the causes and drivers of substance abuse then you dont fix anything. 
 

The biggest driver in all of this however if you look at the break down of deaths is poverty, this wont change until we address that. When I speak to drug addicts, they use for their own reasons, many because of childhood trauma, sexual abuse, physical abuse, being victims of domestic abuse, written off as kids etc. Its understandable to an extent to see why people would take drugs to numb what must be an unbearable pain. The stigmatising of drug users is fucking horrific, we need to stop that as a society, the scum rag newspapers like the sun taking a berky when a drug addict does something or a benefit claimant gets a new house when they ignore the real issue of wealth being unevenly distributed. Create jobs, improve housing, give people opportunities and dont write them off at birth, or give people second chances and the ability to improve their standing. 

Understand that no one actually wants to be an addict, what they want is help but cant trust people to get it and essentially self medicate, when you listen to them and see why they do what they do, you kinda understand why they view things that way. Ive never met anyone who takes heroin because its a fun thing to do, they do it to medicate trauma. There should be a criminal element to the supply and organised crime nature of people preying on these folks, but dont criminalise the victims. Also please dont dehumanise people by labelling them ‘junkies’ etc, its fucking awful, genuinely some absolutely wonderful nice kind and intelligent people fall victim to the disease of addiction and they genuinely don’t deserve that, labelling people like that and sneering at them dehumanises them more, contributes to their feelings of no self worth. Its going to be a really shit winter for the most vulnerable in Scotland, maybe if people have it they could reach out to their local foodbanks or the glasgow missons etc and make a wee donation?

[ICTChris]

Angus McNeil MP has shared the picture in this article, despite it being debunked a year ago.

https://theferret.scot/scotlands-drug-related-deaths-comparable/

Really depressing stuff.

[The Moonster]

16 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Angus McNeil MP has shared the picture in this article, despite it being debunked a year ago.

https://theferret.scot/scotlands-drug-related-deaths-comparable/

Really depressing stuff.

I always get my water tight information from bits of A4 paper blue tacked onto a random shop window.

[Ross.]

On 15/12/2020 at 16:14, Miguel Sanchez said:

I'm surprised to see Sweden, Finland and Norway near the top of the list given the apparent high quality of life and wealth often reported there. 

Vast rural areas with absolutely f**k all to do. I’m surprised the figures aren’t higher.

[ICTChris]

Some data visualisations about the drug death statistics.

[Clockwork]

Of an age now, where the odd stag do’s I get invited on are with a pal to chaperone his son and mates whilst they run riot over a couple of days. Never imagined I might be considered as a sensible steer.

Anyway, a couple of years back ended up in Spain with around thirty lads all in their late twenties/early thirties. I was honestly shocked at the level of non stop drug taking across the whole 4 days. Most of em were pretty open about it too, as soon as they were up from their beds they were back on it, some completely incoherent and some clearly disturbed. No one seemed to bat an eye lid, left me thinking that this must obviously be the norm these days but was genuinely surprised that they all made it back home in one piece. Realise that they were all there to have a blow out on a Stag Do, but it must be impossible to manage a normal day to day life, job, relationships, mental health etc. getting into such a state, if it’s a regular occurrence.

Is this casual use of ‘recreational drugs’ the road that leads to the use of hard drugs, addiction and dependency then the inevitable destruction it brings? I don’t know the true answer to that, but it sure can’t help.