Drug deaths in Scotland hit record high

[Sweet Pete]

1 minute ago, sjc said:

How much of that was down to the way the statistics were gathered and tallied back them? Can make a big difference.

I'd guess so, too. You'd imagine that in the 1950s the government had far more to worry about with the 2nd World War having just ended, ratikoning being a major concern and several other smaller conflicts ongoing and probably weren't noticing patterns before then.

[Nutz_the_Squirrel]

9 minutes ago, Sweet Pete said:

The addictive personality theory was debunked a few years ago.

Yes- quite the load of bollocks. 

[Hedgecutter]

48 minutes ago, Sweet Pete said:

It's a bit of the Glasgow Effect really.

Using my s**t hot Excel-ing skills, it would seem that Dundee leads Glasgow if you look at the actual %age of the population:

[Sweet Pete]

2 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said:

Using my s**t hot Excel-ing skills, it would seem that Dundee leads Glasgow if you look at the actual %age of the population:

Yes, but your spreadsheet (shit hot though it is) doesn't show the Glasgow Effect, it shows nationwide annual drug deaths, which form a part of the whole 

[sjc]

2 minutes ago, Sweet Pete said:

My understanding of it is that it's nowadays based on the idea of chemical, physical and emotional addiction.

I was never fully convinced of the notion of the pot luck tombola of having an addictive personality or not. Just never felt right.

But I'm by no means an expert on the subject, only speaking from personal opinion.

I get what you're saying. Couldn't it be argued that personality in the individual is made up of the 3 factors (perhaps more?) and not just in isolation? Strange how some just don't know when, or want to stop in many cases.

[sjc]

5 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said:

Using my s**t hot Excel-ing skills, it would seem that Dundee leads Glasgow if you look at the actual %age of the population:

Do the Dundee stats include Perth? Am guessing a few OD cases will be sent through to Ninewells.

[Sweet Pete]

3 minutes ago, sjc said:

I get what you're saying. Couldn't it be argued that personality in the individual is made up of the 3 factors (perhaps more?) and not just in isolation? Strange how some just don't know when, or want to stop in many cases.

It's definitely been debunked.

Think about it like this; the theory of the addictive personality excuses personal responsibility for one's own actions, or one's own free will. That surely can't be right. And it isn't.

[sjc]

8 minutes ago, Sweet Pete said:

I'd guess so, too. You'd imagine that in the 1950s the government had far more to worry about with the 2nd World War having just ended, ratikoning being a major concern and several other smaller conflicts ongoing and probably weren't noticing patterns before then.

I'm guessing with price has a lot to do with it too. Look at the increase in use of coke over the last 25 years. used to be a "rich mans drugs" now every c***s having a wee burner as a sharpener after a few pints!

[Cyclizine]

Aberdeen will include the Shire as well - plus there'll be Moray/Shetland/Orkney patients transferred through for intensive care who then die.

[Hedgecutter]

18 minutes ago, sjc said:

Do the Dundee stats include Perth? Am guessing a few OD cases will be sent through to Ninewells.

Adding Perth drops it into 2nd, but only very marginally (down to 0.29163)% 

Crudely updated for the 'old' regions that generally relate to where hubs take folk in from, but I'm not sure if these figures relate to people who died in the respective main hospitals or whether it includes those who clearly died at home?  Unsure of where those in/around Glasgow are taken, so I've added in both the council and wider areas for comparison (although I guess those from Motherwell etc are included in GG but treated by NHS Lanarkshire, e.g. at Kirklands).   

Edited July 4, 2018 by Hedgecutter

[Sweet Pete]

2 minutes ago, sjc said:

I'm guessing with price has a lot to do with it too. Look at the increase in use of coke over the last 25 years. used to be a "rich mans drugs" now every c***s having a wee burner as a sharpener after a few pints!

I'd say so. I remember being fascinated that some guys in my school class had tried coke one weekend, we were more used to the much more common £5 a gram speed. Nowadays you never see suplh, but coke's everywhere.

Same with hash and weed. As a kid, weed was rare and an expensive luxury. But we could always get resin. Nowadays soap bar is rarely seen, but green is easy and cheap to find.

[sjc]

2 minutes ago, Sweet Pete said:

It's definitely been debunked.

Think about it like this; the theory of the addictive personality excuses personal responsibility for one's own actions, or one's own free will. That surely can't be right. And it isn't.

Hmm good point. What are they now saying it is? Disease? Isn't that also negating personal responsibility too? I don't agree with people calling it a "weakness" as I definitely think there's more to it than that. Psychological defect?

[welshbairn]

20 minutes ago, sjc said:

Was it? How is addiction defined nowadays then? It being relative to personality certainly made sense when recovering addicts were often found to have replaced one addiction for another. i.e: alcoholism to gambling for example. 

This explains current thinking briefly and quite clearly. (I didn't know addictive personalities had been disputed either)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/in-excess/201605/the-myth-the-addictive-personality

 

[Sweet Pete]

3 minutes ago, sjc said:

Hmm good point. What are they now saying it is? Disease? Isn't that also negating personal responsibility too? I don't agree with people calling it a "weakness" as I definitely think there's more to it than that. Psychological defect?

I'm honestly not sure how it's medically categorised now, beyond my amateur description above. Chemical dependancy wouldn't need to be called anything else, would it?

[sjc]

2 minutes ago, Sweet Pete said:

I'd say so. I remember being fascinated that some guys in my school class had tried coke one weekend, we were more used to the much more common £5 a gram speed. Nowadays you never see suplh, but coke's everywhere.

Same with hash and weed. As a kid, weed was rare and an expensive luxury. But we could always get resin. Nowadays soap bar is rarely seen, but green is easy and cheap to find.

Yeah, It was pretty mythical in its use round my way back then too.

The jet set age kicked in around about the 50's so would explain the increase in availability from then I suppose.

[sjc]

Just now, Sweet Pete said:

I'm honestly not sure how it's medically categorised now, beyond my amateur description above. Chemical dependancy wouldn't need to be called anything else, would it?

True. If you've watched the sugar documentary from a few years back (was an Aussie production), it certainly ties in with that way of thinking. Good watch btw.

[Shandon Par]

15 minutes ago, Sweet Pete said:

I'd guess so, too. You'd imagine that in the 1950s the government had far more to worry about with the 2nd World War having just ended, ratikoning being a major concern and several other smaller conflicts ongoing and probably weren't noticing patterns before then.

And now they're too worried by the threat of Muslims, Europeans and poor people to care about 10s of 1000s being wiped out each year and we all seem to go along with it. Look at the hysteria a terror attack generates if a few folk are killed. Folk croaking in their council flats or strairwells in estates in their droves doesn't even register on the awareness of politicians (at a UK level anyway). 

[Fifes Elite Force]

I have noticed a general trend since they binned happy hours people are more likely to be doing drugs while out and about drinking. In Dunfermline for example we used to have bouncers on the doors at around 7pm on Friday and Saturday night in even the smaller pubs, now they don't have any (with the exception of night clubs and the larger chain pubs)which seemed to put people off before. I suppose this is only really relevant to the weekend recreational taker.

It also seems as if a larger portion of people go out later (hence the reason pubs don't need bouncers) than before and smash a load of booze in the house since we got rid of happy hours too. England seems to have much more liberal drinking laws as us (24 hour super markets and happy hours). do they have the same level of issue on both problems?

 Both are just a general observations more than anything rather than based on stats.

I can only see even more taxation to price people out of drinking and legalisation of the drugs trade in some capacity to tax and regulate it. Its either that or they go in hard onto dealers and give them very harsh punishments such as life in jail but we cant afford to do that.

Of course they can just let us to what we want as a separate option

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2018 by Fifes Elite Force

[DanMc99]

i find that at my age group , there are more doing coke than not doing it , especially in males.

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

Legalise, regulate, tax.

They do that with alcohol and that's a much bigger killer than drugs.

It might be that the level of danger drops, but the number doing it increases, so you end up worse off than before. Nobody can know without at least piloting it, but knowing what Scottish people are like I think legalisation and regulation would probably lead to even more misery, ill-health and death.

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

People will blame social conditions but are the social conditions in Scotland worse than other countries that don't have as big a problem?  Are we too cavalier in our attitude to getting wasted, we all make jokes about getting drunk and high and base our social lives around this ina  lot of cases.  If you grow up watching your parents getting drunk, are you more likely to think that getting in a state is normal? 

Social conditions - IMO, yes. Too many Scots grow up in communities with a palpable sense of fear, hopelessness and self-destruction. I can see how we're worse than most of Western and Norther Europe, but understanding why we're so much worse than England is difficult. Is there a breakdown of figures for England? What's going on in the north?

Cavalier - yes. We treat our bodies like shit and laugh about it. Alcohol, food, exercise, it all adds up. In most countries they argue about how to make the perfect pasta or which area has the best ham, and they brag about their best food and wine. Here we argue over what we put on our chips and brag about sugary drinks, biscuits and square sausage. Our culture is an adolescent mess.

21 minutes ago, Shandon Par said:

And now they're too worried by the threat of Muslims, Europeans and poor people to care about 10s of 1000s being wiped out each year and we all seem to go along with it. Look at the hysteria a terror attack generates if a few folk are killed. Folk croaking in their council flats or strairwells in estates in their droves doesn't even register on the awareness of politicians (at a UK level anyway). 

Tbf it's only the media that make it look like that. The bulk of government spending goes on health, welfare and housing, and there are vastly more public servants working on those things than on security and justice. Newspapers don't report on it because it's not exciting.