strichener Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 38 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Honestly mate, just read up on decriminalisation and you'll see the support on offer. GPs can't help you because they have no control over it, you need to qualify for methadone or you get nothing. Do you mean decriminalisation or legalisation? You previously used the term illegal and now refer to decriminalisation which does not make either use or possession of drugs legal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted July 31, 2021 Author Share Posted July 31, 2021 The idea that Scotland is so fantastic at recording drug deaths or heart attacks that our rate is many times every other country in Europe is absolutely risible. It would be laughable but I’m pretty sure some MPs parroted this last year when the figures came out. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 The idea that Scotland is so fantastic at recording drug deaths or heart attacks that our rate is many times every other country in Europe is absolutely risible. It would be laughable but I’m pretty sure some MPs parroted this last year when the figures came out. This kind of spin is not unique to this horrible situation. These charlatans will do anything, except admit any kind of responsibility. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 11 hours ago, The Moonster said: All of those issues are a result of drugs being illegal. If the government could fully regulate the drugs your GP would prescribe it and you wouldn't have to go to a shady dealer. When we stop making these users criminals we can properly support them. Sorry, but literally nothing he said is connected to drugs being illegal - unless you're suggesting that people wouldn't need support services, they should just get the drugs from legal sources instead? He was talking about the difficulties in accessing support services, which would be a problem for anyone trying to get off drugs. Alcohol is legal and I'm willing to bet it's the same trying to access support for alcoholism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 5 hours ago, GordonS said: Sorry, but literally nothing he said is connected to drugs being illegal - unless you're suggesting that people wouldn't need support services, they should just get the drugs from legal sources instead? He was talking about the difficulties in accessing support services, which would be a problem for anyone trying to get off drugs. Alcohol is legal and I'm willing to bet it's the same trying to access support for alcoholism. Our support services are poor because we treat users as criminals. We don't treat alcoholics as criminals. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 3 hours ago, The Moonster said: Our support services are poor because we treat users as criminals. We don't treat alcoholics as criminals. No we don't. I am not sure how close you are to this but the people that support drug users do not treat them like criminals. It is the hoops you have to go through to get the support that is the issue. The point about alcohol is that you are correct that they are not treated like criminals but they struggle to access appropriate support services in the same way as drug addicts do. I note that you have yet to clarify if you want drugs decriminalised or legalised. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 Any excuse to post one of my favourite videos of all time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 On 30/07/2021 at 23:24, DeeTillEhDeh said: People are missing the elephant in the room here - relative poverty, deprivation and widening inequalities are important factors behind our drug problem. That's not saying those who are at the margins will become drug addicts but that they are at greater risk than other parts of society. Until you seriously tackle those issues there will always be a drug problem. It's hard to disagree with that if you look at that SMID index that comes out - there's an almost perfect correlation between those areas showing dark red (i.e. most deprived) and those generally known to be "bad with the drugs". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 On 30/07/2021 at 23:24, DeeTillEhDeh said: People are missing the elephant in the room here - relative poverty, deprivation and widening inequalities are important factors behind our drug problem. That's not saying those who are at the margins will become drug addicts but that they are at greater risk than other parts of society. Until you seriously tackle those issues there will always be a drug problem. I'm sure there's a link between poverty and people becoming drug addicts. In my experience (of acquaintances, friends and family, not first hand) there's also a strong link between poverty and not being able to come off drugs. I'm not sure how simple the cause and effect is though. Lots of the factors that can cause poverty could also be directly responsible for addiction, without necessarily having to cause poverty first. Also it's really obvious that addiction causes poverty too. I'm not disagreeing with you at all, i just think there's levels of causes within inequality and poverty. For example, if we had functional mental health services we could tackle some of both drug addiction and poverty at source. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 3 hours ago, strichener said: No we don't. I am not sure how close you are to this but the people that support drug users do not treat them like criminals. It is the hoops you have to go through to get the support that is the issue. The point about alcohol is that you are correct that they are not treated like criminals but they struggle to access appropriate support services in the same way as drug addicts do. I note that you have yet to clarify if you want drugs decriminalised or legalised. Legalised but I'd be content with decriminalisation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugna Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 On 31/07/2021 at 11:13, ICTJohnboy said: A retired GP I met some years ago who had a senior position within the NHS once explained to me that the reason Scotland was at the bottom of any league table concerned with deaths from heart disease, was that these were much more accurately recorded, and documented in Scotland compared to other parts of the UK/Europe. He never believed that deaths from heart disease were any worse in Scotland than anywhere else. Could something similar be happening with the compiling of drugs related death stats in Scotland? He is simply wrong. The uncertainties around reporting are miniscule in comparison to the scale of the differences. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugna Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 3 hours ago, Hillonearth said: It's hard to disagree with that if you look at that SMID index that comes out - there's an almost perfect correlation between those areas showing dark red (i.e. most deprived) and those generally known to be "bad with the drugs". I carry out some analysis for the SG that compares [a different outcome to drug adddiction and deaths] to deprivation. Strong correlation (negative, in my case), and very consistent trend across the 10 deciles. Deprivation is the single biggest predictor of so many things. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 58 minutes ago, sugna said: He is simply wrong. The uncertainties around reporting are miniscule in comparison to the scale of the differences. You're probably right, but you know what they say. There are lies, damned lies and statistics. More on that here for anyone that can be arsed reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misuse_of_statistics -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentine_Pogen Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/aug/03/drug-poisoning-deaths-in-england-and-wales-reach-record-high 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 A good start, but still completely unacceptable that this was not done sooner. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Yet another "no, honestly, we'll really tackle it seriously this time" article. When we see action I'll maybe get on board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 Based Billy Hague. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 (edited) Funny how these sort of sentiments always seem to be expressed after the individual is no longer in government/power. Edited August 11, 2021 by Michael W 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Michael W said: Funny how these sort of sentiments always seem to be expressed after the individual is no longer in government/power. What's worse is he fucking led the Tories, he could've made that policy if he really wanted to. Funnily enough he stopped being leader in 2001, the same year Portugal introduced their decriminalisation programme. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 A good start, but still completely unacceptable that this was not done sooner.Did Paul Sweeney ever press ahead with the safe consumption policy he was chatting about? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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