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What is the point of Labour


pawpar

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11 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

PR again it momentum.  Labour really needs to take note.

such a move would remove the possibility of another far-right Johnson/Truss style government.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/22/majority-of-uk-public-agree-with-liberal-views-on-race-and-sexual-identity-annual-poll

Support for change in the UK voting system?
There was majority public support for the introduction of a proportional representation system for voting MPs into the House of Commons for the first time since the survey began in 1983. Just over half (51%) favoured reform, up from 27% in 2011). While a majority of Labour voters supported PR (61%) only 29% of conservatives favoured electoral reform.

 

Tory voters will be strongly in favour of some form of PR after they get destroyed in the 2024 General Election.  I thought FPTP was a superb system after the 1997 election - and I'm fairly confident you did too.

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22 minutes ago, Thane of Cawdor said:

Tory voters will be strongly in favour of some form of PR after they get destroyed in the 2024 General Election.  I thought FPTP was a superb system after the 1997 election - and I'm fairly confident you did too.

I can't imagine the Conservatives ever being in favour of PR. Putting aside that they're the party of resistance to change (when it suits them), no matter how hard they get shafted at an election, history indicates they're only a few years away from another long stretch in complete control.

They don't even have to worry about having dynamic, powerful leaders anymore. Since the hilarious run of William Hague, Iain Duncan Smith, and Michael Howard, we've had Cameron, May, Johnson, and now the new nadir of Liz Truss. It appears that Britain has just decided to accept them being ineffectual in the desperate scramble for loose change from the top table.

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56 minutes ago, Thane of Cawdor said:

Tory voters will be strongly in favour of some form of PR after they get destroyed in the 2024 General Election.  I thought FPTP was a superb system after the 1997 election - and I'm fairly confident you did too.

No and no.

Just because a system may be beneficial at times that’s not a reason to support it.

The SNP support PR at Westminster despite the fact that they would lose have their representation.

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17 minutes ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

Most of that sounds pretty decent. Whether they actually do it, if they get elected, would be the issue.

Well they never have before, despite promising House of Lords abolition for over a hundred years. But I’m sure they mean it this time. I mean, Gordon Brown - there’s a man you can trust.

8612E7CA-78AB-4A65-812F-9C5E1AE5B2AA.jpeg

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14 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

PR again it momentum.  Labour really needs to take note.

such a move would remove the possibility of another far-right Johnson/Truss style government.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/22/majority-of-uk-public-agree-with-liberal-views-on-race-and-sexual-identity-annual-poll

Some people in the Labour Party think FPTP is the only way they can ever win a whopping majority and implement their radical agenda.

Unfortunately they have to avoid being radical to ensure they win and in any case the next Tory majority government can simply undo all of it.

Corbyn was perceived as hard left.  If he won, maybe we would supposedly only be friends with Venezuela and Cuba and no one else!   Now we have a Tory leader who is not sure about being friends with France and wants to leave the ECHR.  I would describe that as hard right.

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7 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

Some people in the Labour Party think FPTP is the only way they can ever win a whopping majority and implement their radical agenda.

Unfortunately they have to avoid being radical to ensure they win and in any case the next Tory majority government can simply undo all of it.

Corbyn was perceived as hard left.  If he won, maybe we would supposedly only be friends with Venezuela and Cuba and no one else!   Now we have a Tory leader who is not sure about being friends with France and wants to leave the ECHR.  I would describe that as hard right.

I agree with all that.  PR is not a panacea but I think it would be the most far reaching political change in a long time.  Sadly other European countries are demonstrating that even with PR there can be right wing coalitions and influences but it’s better than an 80+ seat majority with 43% of the vote.

Scottish Independence still the priority mind you.

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I’m not sure why the Labour Party bother holding a conference any more.  Every effort is made to ensure anything the leadership disagrees with is not on the agenda and even where there is overwhelming support for a policy it is completely at the leader’s discretion as to whether any notice will be taken of it.

It is genuinely the case that policy for the political party that may be the next government is being made by one man aided by unaccountable advisers.

Seriously just ditch the facade of democratic policy making.

 

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Heard the democracy deniers crying about independence again this morning and how they'll tearfully challenge the Supreme Court decision should it not go in their favour (i.e. should it decide that a bit of democracy is fine).

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