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What is the point of Labour


pawpar

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So, the suggestion is, that, at their Conference this week, Starmer should have said 'I will of course work with the SNP if that's what it takes, to form a government'? as if he doesn't he treats 'all' Scottish voters with contempt?

Why would any party announce that? What he has ruled out is forming a coalition govt with the SNP...nowhere has he said that he would 'dismiss a 50+ seats SNP result, in terms of talking about Independence. 

There is a big difference between saying 'no coalition', and 'I will totally ignore the result of an election in which the SNP stand on a single policy of 'should we negotiate Independence', in which they go on to win 50 odd seats (if that happens).

 

Edited by Jedi
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14 hours ago, williemillersmoustache said:

This really does show how easily the Tories have shifted the dial. Reinstating what 3 weeks ago were tory policies now makes you Keir Hardie for some people. 

Reinstating a top rate of 45p to invest in the NHS hardly makes anyone 'Keir Hardie'. 

Implementing a windfall tax on energy companies, chasing corporation fraud, trying to protect those in rented accommodation, setting up a publicly owned energy company, trying to boost the jobs market with green investment, protecting the environment, slapping VAT on private schools, nationalising rail, reversing anti-trade union laws, investing in mental health services, ending the benefits cap, and borrowing to invest does however, lean to the left, and offers policies to improve the country.

Meanwhile the SNP's proposal is to enter the election on a single policy of Independence.

Edited by Jedi
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Just now, Jedi said:

Reinstating a top rate of 45p to invest in the NHS hardly makes anyone Keir Hardie. 

Implementing a windfall tax on energy companies, chasing corporation fraud, trying to protect those in rented accommodation, setting up a publicly owned energy company, trying to boost the jobs market with green investment, protecting the environment, slapping VAT on private schools, nationalising rail, and borrowing to invest does however, lean to the left, and offers policies to improve the country.

Meanwhile the SNP's proposal is to enter the election on a single policy of Independence.

This i accept is going to hurt your sensibilities but, Starmer has, with the exception of a few commendable policies, occupied the centre right ground which Truss has so recenlty vacated and which up until a few days ago was dominated by Alexander Boris de Peffle Johnson. 

And this is something I know a little about, "boosting the jobs market" sounds like a good thing, in normal times it would be, but we don't need to boost the market. Up until Trussenomics we had jobs coming out of our fucking ears but hee haw people to fill them. What we need is not a byzantine points based immigration system, which is fundamentally a policy of the right, designed to keep them 'orroble forriers out. What we need is a large, flexible, diverse and easily accessible pool of talent and the means to attract them. I'll let you work out what that's called. 

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What's it called? Presumably Andrew Wilson's low tax, light regulation, 'Singapore on the Forth' reduction of public spending, big business friendly, and  and a growth target of 0.5% Independence plan, which the SNP are so keen to see implemented.

If you are still classing the Labour policies listed above as 'right wing' I genuinely don't know where to go with that. Disagree with them, of course, but 'right wing'.

Edited by Jedi
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43 minutes ago, Jedi said:

What's it called? Presumably Andrew Wilson's low tax, light regulation, 'Singapore on the Forth' reduction of public spending, big business friendly, and  and a growth target of 0.5% Independence plan, which the SNP are so keen to see implemented.

If you are still classing the Labour policies listed above as 'right wing' I genuinely don't know where to go with that. Disagree with them, of course, but 'right wing'.

That’s twice you’ve mentioned this.  Is this SNP policy you’re referring too?

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8 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Anyone who thinks Labour under Starmer are left of centre is a fucking puddle drinking simpleton.

They are a reactionary Britnat flag shagging bunch of opportunists without a fucking ounce of fucking principle in their bones.

Every word true, yet whilst we are still tethered to the UK I’d rather have Labour in charge than the Tories.

That said the next Labour government will be a single term one.

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16 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Every word true, yet whilst we are still tethered to the UK I’d rather have Labour in charge than the Tories.

That said the next Labour government will be a single term one.

 

Not if Cumming's wishes are granted.

No, 'human handgrenade' wasn't a 'compliment' because 'she got things done' NB. this is our chance to plough the Tories into the earth with salt so they never recover & are REPLACED https://dominiccummings.substack.com/p/snippets-6-t
 
Edited by ICTJohnboy
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For many years I was against PR and in favour of FPTP. This has changed in recent years as we saw more and more Tory governments elected with less and less of the vote.

Time for a change. If we get PR in at Westminster, we force the Tories either out completely, or into coalition with some left-ish parties. No more hard-right Truss bollocks.

It saddens me that there is still a hard core inside Labour who will bet everything on a Labour government with a majority. I am 43. I have spent 30 years of my life under the Tories. If we get PR, then the Tories will need to change or die.

A few nuggets that show FPTP isn't great (if selling it to middle England):

In 2015, the SNP got 56 seats with 1.4 million votes. UKIP (yes, I know) got 0 seats with 3.9 million votes. 

In 2005, Labour won 55% of the seats with 35% of the vote.

The arguments for FPTP have fallen down since 2010 also. We have had 2 minority or coalition governments in that time.

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4 hours ago, scottsdad said:

For many years I was against PR and in favour of FPTP. This has changed in recent years as we saw more and more Tory governments elected with less and less of the vote.

Time for a change. If we get PR in at Westminster, we force the Tories either out completely, or into coalition with some left-ish parties. No more hard-right Truss bollocks.

It saddens me that there is still a hard core inside Labour who will bet everything on a Labour government with a majority. I am 43. I have spent 30 years of my life under the Tories. If we get PR, then the Tories will need to change or die.

A few nuggets that show FPTP isn't great (if selling it to middle England):

In 2015, the SNP got 56 seats with 1.4 million votes. UKIP (yes, I know) got 0 seats with 3.9 million votes. 

In 2005, Labour won 55% of the seats with 35% of the vote.

The arguments for FPTP have fallen down since 2010 also. We have had 2 minority or coalition governments in that time.

It says a lot for the SNP that they support PR for Westminster despite knowing that they will be one of the biggest casualties.

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As a puddle drinking simpleton, I'm still waiting to discover which of taxing the rich more, nationalising railways, setting up a publicly owned Energy company, going after business fraud, ending charity status of private schools, and charging them VAT, rolling out breakfast clubs for all Primary Schools, slapping a tax on multinational energy profits is right wing.

But hey, they had a Union Jack on the platform, so they must be.

One interesting opinion poll giving Labour a 33% lead today (Lab 54%, Con 21%). Clearly its never going to be that big a win, but, of course we wouldn't notice any difference between them and the Tories in power.

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13 minutes ago, Jedi said:

As a puddle drinking simpleton, I'm still waiting to discover which of taxing the rich more, nationalising railways, setting up a publicly owned Energy company, going after business fraud, ending charity status of private schools, and charging them VAT, rolling out breakfast clubs for all Primary Schools, slapping a tax on multinational energy profits is right wing.

But hey, they had a Union Jack on the platform, so they must be.

One interesting opinion poll giving Labour a 33% lead today (Lab 54%, Con 21%). Clearly its never going to be that big a win, but, of course we wouldn't notice any difference between them and the Tories in power.

I agree with that…

 

 

 

 

 

 

…we’ll the first five words.

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1 hour ago, Jedi said:

As a puddle drinking simpleton, I'm still waiting to discover which of taxing the rich more, nationalising railways, setting up a publicly owned Energy company, going after business fraud, ending charity status of private schools, and charging them VAT, rolling out breakfast clubs for all Primary Schools, slapping a tax on multinational energy profits is right wing.

But hey, they had a Union Jack on the platform, so they must be.

One interesting opinion poll giving Labour a 33% lead today (Lab 54%, Con 21%). Clearly its never going to be that big a win, but, of course we wouldn't notice any difference between them and the Tories in power.

Have you considered the possibility that once in power Labour may in fact do none of these things?

Keir Starmer has a 100% record of abandoning campaign pledges. This is absolutely a problem for convincing anyone that a Labour Party led by him will stick to manifesto commitments.

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1 hour ago, Jedi said:

As a puddle drinking simpleton, I'm still waiting to discover which of taxing the rich more, nationalising railways, setting up a publicly owned Energy company, going after business fraud, ending charity status of private schools, and charging them VAT, rolling out breakfast clubs for all Primary Schools, slapping a tax on multinational energy profits is right wing.

But hey, they had a Union Jack on the platform, so they must be.

One interesting opinion poll giving Labour a 33% lead today (Lab 54%, Con 21%). Clearly its never going to be that big a win, but, of course we wouldn't notice any difference between them and the Tories in power.

Sarwar said today that they would start a publicly owned electricity generating company.

How do you suggest that is going to work?

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24 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

Have you considered the possibility that once in power Labour may in fact do none of these things?

Keir Starmer has a 100% record of abandoning campaign pledges. This is absolutely a problem for convincing anyone that a Labour Party led by him will stick to manifesto commitments.

Apart from the ultra Brexit, the flagshagging and the rabid hatred of immigrants. The Tory c**t will keep them alright. 

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1 hour ago, Jedi said:

As a puddle drinking simpleton, I'm still waiting to discover which of taxing the rich more, nationalising railways, setting up a publicly owned Energy company, going after business fraud, ending charity status of private schools, and charging them VAT, rolling out breakfast clubs for all Primary Schools, slapping a tax on multinational energy profits is right wing.

But hey, they had a Union Jack on the platform, so they must be.

One interesting opinion poll giving Labour a 33% lead today (Lab 54%, Con 21%). Clearly its never going to be that big a win, but, of course we wouldn't notice any difference between them and the Tories in power.

I'm an independent Scotland I won't have to cross my fingers that once in a generation English voters might want some of these things.

I know this because the SNP have delivered or are going to legislate for all of the above where Holyrood have the powers to do so.

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Yes, I would imagine that once Andrew Wilson and his gang of ultra free-marketeers, get their hands on the Scottish economy, and bring in their swinging fiscal restraints (ie take an axe to the public sector), low tax, big business, model that we will see 'left wing' policies enacted. (Kate Forbes will be able to repeat her mantra about 'encouraging entrepreneurship and multinational investment though). Still after 10 years (by Wilson's own admission), they might be able to loosen the purse strings a bit.....that is if they choose to remove control of interest rates and monetary policy from the Bank of England.

And as for flegs....any appearance of a Union Jack...bad, multitude of saltires...good.

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