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What is the point of Labour


pawpar

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7 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

More arrogance and just contempt for Scottish people from Labour. The SNP for some reason have annihilated the brains of Labour, and they seem constantly furiois at Scotland that we just won't roll over and do what they want.

Well we really should be very impressed.  

All it has taken for Labour to become electable is for the tories to starve the vulnerable and poor, destroy public services, bungle the greatest public health crisis in 100 years, killing 200,000 while robbing us fucking blind and partying in Number 10 like Bluto and Flounder in Animal House while many of us couldn't say goodbye to our nearest and dearest and as a couple de grace detonate the economy. Then Keir can rob our resources, which 8 years ago he told us had run out, to solve England's economic disaster and tell Scotland to go f**k itself. 

I mean, brilliant work Keith. You visionary.  

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2 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

It’s wild how English politicians can’t just admit Brexit doesn’t work and it was a mistake 

They’re terrified of admitting the electorate was conned by spivs and chancers. Apparently, it’s ok to call the opposition bad names (just not in the House of Commons, where free speech prevents it) - you just can’t acknowledge that the charlatans have actually succeeded in their charlatanism. Bizarre.

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11 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Some very tasteless remarks from the labour MP, Rupa Huq, saying that KK is not really black or words to that effect.

Wow, thought it was just Tories that did that sort of thing.

Cringeworthy.

This is what the separatists have been telling you for years, there's no fucking difference. Get them all in the bin. 

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5 hours ago, Caledonian1 said:

You still believe the Scottish Government are payin £700m for the ScotWind licences?  If so maybe best to take yourself away from this discussion as you clearly do not understand it.

Always love intellectual superiority/better than thou.

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I think it's fair to say that a Labour govt (any Labour govt), will invest more heavily in public services than the Tories. To not do so, would go against the grain of their raison d'etre. Doesn't matter if it's a left leaning (a la Corbyn) or a centrist (Starmer) led party.

Given that they were battered in their own backyard across the Midlands by the Tories in 2019 over being wishy washy on Brexit, they are hardly going to come out now on a platform of rejoining the EU (at the moment). Of course they will never out gun the Tories in terms of union jack waving, but again, they have to circumvent the Tory attack line that they are 'unpatriotic'. I don't like flag waving either (of any kind), but can see why they have the UJ front and centre at the Conference, doesn't mean I agree with it.

They were also hounded by the Tories in 2015 with the line that they were in Sturgeon's pocket, so they are unlikely to declare that we will work with anyone in coalition just to keep the Tories out now. 'If' the SNP win 50+ seats in Scotland then a Labour govt would still be under pressure to negotiate on Independence whether they liked it or not.

There is clear water between Labour and the Tories...one has just scrapped the top rate of tax to hand the wealthy more cash, while the other is pledging to reinstate it to fund the NHS. 

Labour also traditionally borrow to invest (in public services), not to hand tax cuts to the rich or big pay outs to energy giants (rather proposing aa windfall tax on the same utilities).

Rather than fracking, Labour is serious about developing green energy, both as a source of jobs, and also to find alternative energy sources which are both better for the planet, and also move away from dependence on Russian oil and gas. 

That's not 'Tory lite', it's a left of centre approach to govt.

Edited by Jedi
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4 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Should Labour need SNP votes in a Westminster election he'll say that if the SNP don't unconditionally give them then it will be their, and by extension YOUR, fault, should the SNP refuse and the Tories can make a government.

I genuinely believe the Scottish branch would absolutely love this scenario

Seeing the tories in power so they can blame “the nationalists” 

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1 hour ago, Jedi said:

I think it's fair to say that a Labour govt (any Labour govt), will invest more heavily in public services than the Tories. To not do so, would go against the grain of their raison d'etre. Doesn't matter if it's a left leaning (a la Corbyn) or a centrist (Starmer) led party.

Given that they were battered in their own backyard across the Midlands by the Tories in 2019 over being wishy washy on Brexit, they are hardly going to come out now on a platform of rejoining the EU (at the moment). Of course they will never out gun the Tories in terms of union jack waving, but again, they have to circumvent the Tory attack line that they are 'unpatriotic'. I don't like flag waving either (of any kind), but can see why they have the UJ front and centre at the Conference, doesn't mean I agree with it.

They were also hounded by the Tories in 2015 with the line that they were in Sturgeon's pocket, so they are unlikely to declare that we will work with anyone in coalition just to keep the Tories out now. 'If' the SNP win 50+ seats in Scotland then a Labour govt would still be under pressure to negotiate on Independence whether they liked it or not.

There is clear water between Labour and the Tories...one has just scrapped the top rate of tax to hand the wealthy more cash, while the other is pledging to reinstate it to fund the NHS. 

Labour also traditionally borrow to invest (in public services), not to hand tax cuts to the rich or big pay outs to energy giants (rather proposing aa windfall tax on the same utilities).

Rather than fracking, Labour is serious about developing green energy, both as a source of jobs, and also to find alternative energy sources which are both better for the planet, and also move away from dependence on Russian oil and gas. 

That's not 'Tory lite', it's a left of centre approach to govt.

If I wanted to highlight how different Labour are to the Tories I'd avoid conceding that two of their key policies are written by them. 

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I am assuming that the 'highlighted' policies (written by the Tories) are making Brexit 'work', and not forming a coalition with the SNP.

Question: If Labour stood on a platform of re-joining the EU at the next election-would they win?

Also, he has ruled out a 'coalition' with the SNP. Nowhere has he said 'and if the SNP win nearly every seat in Scotland, I will refuse to even negotiate Independence with them;

No mention of Labour announcing a publicly owned energy company though. Again, hardly a 'Tory' policies, and certainly not a policy followed by Sturgeon. 

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3 hours ago, williemillersmoustache said:

Its almost as if winning by any means is the most tory policy of all. 

By any means?...reinstating the top rate of tax, (to invest in the NHS),a windfall tax on energy companies, setting up a publicly owned state Energy company, rather than fracking making a serious investment in green energy and jobs, bringing railways into public ownership, trebling onshore wind power, trebling solar power, quadrupling tidal, nuclear, and hydrogen power, a serious attempt to get more people on the housing ladder, cutting down on business fraud, ending automatic evictions, and no-fault evictions by landlords....these all sound pretty left wing to me. 

But because he isn't inviting the SNP into a potential coalition, he is trying to win by any means?

Edited by Jedi
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10 hours ago, Jedi said:

I am assuming that the 'highlighted' policies (written by the Tories) are making Brexit 'work', and not forming a coalition with the SNP.

Question: If Labour stood on a platform of re-joining the EU at the next election-would they win?

Also, he has ruled out a 'coalition' with the SNP. Nowhere has he said 'and if the SNP win nearly every seat in Scotland, I will refuse to even negotiate Independence with them;

No mention of Labour announcing a publicly owned energy company though. Again, hardly a 'Tory' policies, and certainly not a policy followed by Sturgeon. 

I suspect a sniff of a labour win will see SNP voters tactically vote for Labour at a general election. Which should get Labour a few seats in the central belt. Essentially this happened towards the end of the 2017 election campaign too. 

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7 hours ago, Jedi said:

By any means?...reinstating the top rate of tax, (to invest in the NHS),a windfall tax on energy companies, setting up a publicly owned state Energy company, rather than fracking making a serious investment in green energy and jobs, bringing railways into public ownership, trebling onshore wind power, trebling solar power, quadrupling tidal, nuclear, and hydrogen power, a serious attempt to get more people on the housing ladder, cutting down on business fraud, ending automatic evictions, and no-fault evictions by landlords....these all sound pretty left wing to me. 

But because he isn't inviting the SNP into a potential coalition, he is trying to win by any means?

This really does show how easily the Tories have shifted the dial. Reinstating what 3 weeks ago were tory policies now makes you Keir Hardie for some people. 

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Again, it isn't about the SNP. It isn't really about independence as such, as what else will they 'refuse' us (as if they have the right to refuse us our democratic rights)? It's about Labour holding our right to democracy to ransom, or threatening that they'll do so. It's about their contempt they show for all Scottish voters. It's about how they openly say we are less of a priority, yet arrogantly demand we fall in line or we'll be blamed for the horrors the Tory party will continue to unleash on us.

I don't think anyone doubts Labour are a much better alternative to the Conservatives at Westminster, but we'll still be governed by a party largely rejected by the electorate here and still be told to get in line whilst they lie to us with promises they have zero intention of keeping, all whilst they keep the seat warm for another cycle of Conservative hurt.

Edited by DA Baracus
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