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What is the point of Labour


pawpar

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1 minute ago, btb said:

If there's so little between Labour & Tory policy the why not?

I'm not saying there's an easy solution for Labour to win back Scottish voters but a statement like todays means Ian Murray will again be their sole Scottish MP after the next GE - and I doubt it will secure many English votes.

Lesson No. 1 should be "You can't out-Tory the Tories".

To be fair (and I’m not sure if I should be) Labour have no option to make this sort of statement pre-election.  What happens post-election could be very, very different.

 

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8 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

To be fair (and I’m not sure if I should be) Labour have no option to make this sort of statement pre-election.  What happens post-election could be very, very different.

 

Like Ed Milliband's "Vow" back in 2014?

Like I said there isn't an easy option for Labour but promising a second Indy referendum in Scotland after the next GE would offer Labour the best oportunity of winning said GE IMO with the downside being that it won't play well with people who probably aren't gonna vote Labour anyway

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15 hours ago, Day of the Lords said:

I didn't realise he was writing for the Courier now. Some fall from grace 😂

Anyway, Angela Rayner appears to be living rent free in Dominic Raab's head. What a strange little man he is. 

 

 

Ooh! I had no idea about this. I've recently started reading the Courier, on the eminently sensible grounds that it can't possibly be any worse than the Herald or the Scotsman, and I like it! Well, sort of. I find the relatively broad range of football teams it's aware of (8-10 compared to the 2-4 the other two rags acknowledge) and the occasional crime story, the gangster granny being a fine example, provide quality entertainment. I'll look out for Scotland's king of comedy from now on, though I must say that, even factoring in his evident desperation, I would have thought that the Courier was a tad staunch for his taste.

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What folk say before an election means nothing. Look at this one from Nick Clegg just before the 2010 election.

Quote

Imagine the Conservatives go home and get an absolute majority, on 25% of the eligible votes. They then turn around in the next week or two and say we’re going to chuck up VAT to 20%, we’re going to start cutting teachers, cutting police and the wage bill in the public sector. I think if you’re not careful in that situation. you’d get Greek-style unrest. And so my warning to people who think the old politics still works, is be careful for what you wish for.

VAT up to 20%? Yes, and Clegg voted it in. 

Cuts to teachers, police and the public sector wage bill? Yes, and Clegg voted it in. 

Starmer is saying what he has to to avoid the (rather predictable) "Coalition of Chaos" nonsense in the press.

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Party seen as more fit to govern than the Tories. Only by default because they have actually dropped in the polling as well. Just not as badly as the Tories have.

Labour and Starmer in a nutshell. Vote for us, we're not as bad as them. Vote for Starmer, he's not as bad as Corbyn.

image.thumb.png.12c13a3e50b4338d441c3b715cdee24d.png

 

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Brilliant work from Keith. On Brexit, on crime, on immigration, and on the most basic democratic principle Labour are having their policies dictated by Conservative party headquarters. 

The most damning, and fairest criticism of the Tories last 12 years in government is their utterly ruthless pursuit of what is narrowly politically expedient for them to stay in power and hang the consequences. You can now very easily make the same accusation of those half-tory wankers in what used to the Labour party too.

Of course this is outrageous and f**k them for having the chutzpah and absolute contempt for Scotland to take these positions but, no clearer argument for independence can be made than "f**k how you vote, and how you have voted multiple times in consecutive elections for almost a decade, winning votes in England is far far more important than that." 

Fabulous work from the cardboard cut out turncoat torylite c**t. 

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21 hours ago, Suspect Device said:

Party seen as more fit to govern than the Tories. Only by default because they have actually dropped in the polling as well. Just not as badly as the Tories have.

Labour and Starmer in a nutshell. Vote for us, we're not as bad as them. Vote for Starmer, he's not as bad as Corbyn.

image.thumb.png.12c13a3e50b4338d441c3b715cdee24d.png

 

That graph is worrying in a much bigger way, it seems to echo the “they’re all as bad as each other/all politicians are shite ” sentiment.

I know some will agree with that, and I’ve seen similar views expressed on here.  My real fear is that such a disillusionment with politics/politicians can be the prerequisite to extremist populism as we saw in the U.S. with Trump and, more worryingly IMO, as we have seen recently in France.

Despite my concerns about U.S. politics I never envisaged someone like Trump getting elected and I never expected the National Front under a slightly different name becoming the third largest party in the French Parliament.

Dangerous political times.

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Progressive or liberal democracies are not inevitable, it takes effort and good legislation to maintain. The SNP/Greens have discussions about the process of democracy, and the ideals that propel the drafting of legislation. They highlight the democratic deficit. They've reached out to other nations and looked to co-operate with a UK government that simply will not listen. Sinn Fein and the Irish Government are in a similar position. They've engaged with process of democracy and negotiated settlement, only to watch as it is being thrown out by the UK in favour of its own form of authoritarian rule that over-rides international agreements. It doesn't help much that the Tories are incompetent, that they can do it is the problem. The Scottish Parliament can't pass illegal legislation in that manner without challenge.

Biggest worry at the present time is that Liz, Priti, Raaab et al will begin a 2nd Crimean War or reignite the Troubles. Combined, they are stupid, careless, cruel, and arrogant enough to do so.

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10 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

Dodds and Starmer always look like they are doing things at gun point.

They are scared to commit to anything that will upset the MSM so gurgle out a lot of words and soundbites that say f**k all. If they go down the not as bad as Tories but we'll keep all their shitty policies in place mandate I can see them hemorrhaging a lot of votes to the Greens.

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Turning into a bit of an obsession of mine but with Starmer about to make a speech saying Labour won't seek to rejoin the Single Market but will seek to "Make Brexit Work"  another ToryLite policy you've got to repeat the opening question - what is the point of Labour?

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16 minutes ago, btb said:

 

Turning into a bit of an obsession of mine but with Starmer about to make a speech saying Labour won't seek to rejoin the Single Market but will seek to "Make Brexit Work"  another ToryLite policy you've got to repeat the opening question - what is the point of Labour?

With a heavy heart I say " No point in Labour" anymore.

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A 'managed' opposition. Sir Kier Starmer and Sir Ed Davey may be promising change but really they are there to maintain the hierarchy and establishment.

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By "whole country" he means England of course. You don't have to be a political scientist to know that this persistent rhetoric from UK Labour is just to appeal to the English heartlands. "Scottish Labour" are just an irrelevant branch office filled with "messenger boys" on their behalf. It's time for them to cut ties with UK Labour officially and finally grow a spine and speak for themselves. Anas Sarwar and Jackie Baillie come across as wishful bootlickers and next in line to join in the footsteps of George Foulkes, Jack McConnell and Baroness Ruth. 

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7 minutes ago, monthefife said:

It's time for them to cut ties with UK Labour officially and finally grow a spine and speak for themselves.

Exactly. I find it hard to believe there are no independence minded people within SLab. If there isn't a breakaway group willing to argue for indy then the whole of SLab are going to be treated with even more contempt when they have their Damascene conversion to supporting Scotland and working for all the Scottish people the day after independence. 

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I really have to laugh at those heaping scorn on Sturgeon for declaring last week that the SNP will fight the next GE on the basis of an independence mandate.

Starmer's speech is just further evidence that the dominant issue in contemporary UK politics is not maintaining the Union but how best to appeal to and pacify aggressive English nationalism.  And I have no confidence that would alter were Labour to form a Government.

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