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What is the point of Labour


pawpar

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On 14/10/2021 at 22:37, virginton said:

They quite clearly weren't though, as Labour waltzed to another term under Blair in 2005 over the fresh corpses of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. The Tories (as usual) made Blair look like a lentil-munching, hippy pacifist in their support for the war, so it wasn't an issue that actually swung opinion towards the opposition - which is where elections are won and lost.

What many left of centre people might hope caused New Labour's downfall bears no relation to the actual decisive factor: the global economic meltdown that was bound to punt a tired, shit, mumbleclown incumbent into the bin. Unless you argue that the US deficit splurge on Iraq actually caused that financial crisis, then Brown would have been defeated regardless. 

True, although the same would have happened to Blair. They were already shedding votes and seats (as they did in 2005).

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19 hours ago, Detournement said:

If Brown had called the early election at the beginning of 2008 things would be very different today. Osbornomics were a total disaster and have basically crippled us as a nation. 

Btown clearly isn't a psychopath like Blair but he kept his head down in 2002-3 when he should have been brave enough to follow the lead of Robin Cook. 

 

I seem to recollect him saying on several occasions that he would have taken the exact same action as Blair embarked on.

There was, and still is, that school of thought across the political divide, that the US is our most important ally and must be supported no matter what kind of shitfest they choose to get involved in.

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7 hours ago, tamthebam said:

I felt slightly sorry for Gordon Brown on that one.

The horrible old bag was indeed a bigoted woman

Yes, unpopular opinions for this pish etc 

No he was quite right she was a bigot and rather than chase his arse up and down the country to apologise to the horrible old bag he should have stuck to his guns. 

This single act of cowardice went a long way to mainstream the othering of migrants, made him look too weak to be PM for the right of the electorate and a craven principle free tube to the left. 

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This could've all been averted if, when asked, "where are all these Eastern Europeans coming from eh?" Gordon Brown had answered "Eastern Europe." The answer is in the question Gordo.

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Recording him while he was in his car driving away having forgotten to hand back his mike, and then releasing the tape was low. Though I suppose any news organisation would do the same.

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Recording him while he was in his car driving away having forgotten to hand back his mike, and then releasing the tape was low. Though I suppose any news organisation would do the same.
He should have apologised for not pulling up the racist old bitch when she challenged him.
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1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:
1 hour ago, NotThePars said:
This could've all been averted if, when asked, "where are all these Eastern Europeans coming from eh?" Gordon Brown had answered "Eastern Europe." The answer is in the question Gordo.

Or smacked her in the chops like 2 Jabs?

You have to laugh on reflection that someone decided it was a good idea to get up close and pelt a former boxer. Those were some fast hands from Prescott and fair play to him. 

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On 15/10/2021 at 18:50, Highlandmagyar Tier 3 said:

All episodes on iplayer.

I'm on episode four and I've stopped it as I'm staggered by Brown and him saying that he didn't have enough information to consider not supporting Blair in going to war.

What astonishing weakness from the self styled Iron Chancellor.

There's something about Blair that is deeply creepy but for the likes of Brown and Jack Shaw to dive to similar depths is something that is really quite distressing.

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2 hours ago, sophia said:

I'm on episode four and I've stopped it as I'm staggered by Brown and him saying that he didn't have enough information to consider not supporting Blair in going to war.

What astonishing weakness from the self styled Iron Chancellor.

There's something about Blair that is deeply creepy but for the likes of Brown and Jack Shaw to dive to similar depths is something that is really quite distressing.

 

Don't know why you switched it off.

More than enough evidence in that one programme to have the out and out liar to be hauled before the court of The Hague to answer charges of war crimes.

 

 

Edited by ICTJohnboy
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1 hour ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

Don't know why you switched it off.

More than enough evidence in that one programme to have the out and out liar to be hauled before the court of The Hague to answer charges of war crimes.

Which one?

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8 hours ago, NotThePars said:

You have to laugh on reflection that someone decided it was a good idea to get up close and pelt a former boxer. Those were some fast hands from Prescott and fair play to him. 

IIRC the guy had a mullet and that was reason enough for Two Jags to smack him

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Not a fan of Lord Prescott, but he certainly didn't deserve much criticism for reflexively sticking one on some p***k who'd just assaulted him.

I think we can agree that the press coverage of that would be substantially different today.

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Not a fan of Lord Prescott, but he certainly didn't deserve much criticism for reflexively sticking one on some p***k who'd just assaulted him.
I think we can agree that the press coverage of that would be substantially different today.
Didn't his popularity go up after that?
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3 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Didn't his popularity go up after that?

Most folk didn't seem to think he did much wrong, and it certainly didn't do his image any harm with the public. The press were split between finding it amusing, and gurning about the leftie oaf engaging his fists before his brain. They'd be hailing him as a hero now. Well, as much as they could bear to hail a leftie oaf as a hero, at least.

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Finished the documentary now and found it very interesting. Brown the chancellor had this immense reputation of being tough and stable. Brown the PM was seen as brittle. 

He probably should have called the election in 2007/8 and whatever he says in the documentary, people felt that he saw a poll showing it was close and shat his pants.

Most interesting to me was George Osbourne saying that he was delighted when Blair went as Blair was a "Tory-destroying machine" and Brown wasn't. Will Labour ever have a leader again that makes the Tories feel this way?

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Watched the first couple of those Blair and Brown documentaries. Interesting stuff. It's amazing how, in hindsight, they both called everything that was going to happen with 100% accuracy.

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