What is the point of Labour ?

[John Lambies Doos]

I actually wish I lived in Scotland/Wales for more choice. 
I vote Labour (mainly on a regional level) and because I'm not a millionaire.
Liberal Democrats are too beige and Tories are too nasty. 
I stay out of politics nowadays because I find it all incredibly dull and self righteous. 
Interested to hear - who do you guys regard as the best party to vote for locally and nationally?

SNP until independence

[welshbairn]

IMO in Scotland you should vote the same in Council, Scottish Parliament and Westminster.
By voting the same in Council and Scottish Parliament you are removing the ability of the council to pass blame to the parliament and vice versa.  So if SNP are in both they wont blame themselves for problems at local level but if Labour are at local level and SNP are at parliament then they will point fingers at each other.
Who to vote for?  Well everyone will feel differently but for me its SNP all the way, i dont agree with all of their policies, infact i strongly disagree with some but i would never vote for Labour or Tories as they are not Scottish parties, they are merely branch offces of British parties.
Let me put it this way, Labour and Tories will ALWAYS put the interests of its core vote ahead of its minority vote, so in the case of UK politics both these parties will put the interests of their voters in England ahead of their voters in Scotland, NI or Wales.
If Labour or Tories had to choose between England or the rest of the UK to fund a massive project then they would choose England and who can really blame them.  If they want to stay in power (and therfor affect the kind of change they say they do) then they need voters to vote for them and they arent going to do that by funding the parts of the UK that doesnt affect those chances.
The SNP on the other hand only run in Scotland so the only electorate they ever try to please/appease is the Scottish electorate.
 

I disagree about not wanting local governments to hold Holyrood to account. It annoys me how Snp councillors refuse to ever criticise Edinburgh when their local electorate are being harmed by national policy.

[tehvlb]

Just now, welshbairn said:

32 minutes ago, tehvlb said:

IMO in Scotland you should vote the same in Council, Scottish Parliament and Westminster.
By voting the same in Council and Scottish Parliament you are removing the ability of the council to pass blame to the parliament and vice versa.  So if SNP are in both they wont blame themselves for problems at local level but if Labour are at local level and SNP are at parliament then they will point fingers at each other.
Who to vote for?  Well everyone will feel differently but for me its SNP all the way, i dont agree with all of their policies, infact i strongly disagree with some but i would never vote for Labour or Tories as they are not Scottish parties, they are merely branch offces of British parties.
Let me put it this way, Labour and Tories will ALWAYS put the interests of its core vote ahead of its minority vote, so in the case of UK politics both these parties will put the interests of their voters in England ahead of their voters in Scotland, NI or Wales.
If Labour or Tories had to choose between England or the rest of the UK to fund a massive project then they would choose England and who can really blame them.  If they want to stay in power (and therfor affect the kind of change they say they do) then they need voters to vote for them and they arent going to do that by funding the parts of the UK that doesnt affect those chances.
The SNP on the other hand only run in Scotland so the only electorate they ever try to please/appease is the Scottish electorate.
 

I disagree about not wanting local governments to hold Holyrood to account. It annoys me how Snp councillors refuse to ever criticise Edinburgh when their local electorate are being harmed by national policy.

its not about having a situation where local cant blame state.  Its about having a situation where state can either fix a problem or make their party look bad....which do you think they would do?

If the schools in airdrie are falling apart the state can blame the local labour council and vice versa...end result, nothing gets done.

If the council in airdrie is SNP then what do you think will happen?

[Girth]

1 hour ago, John Lambies Doos said:

1 hour ago, Girth said:

I actually wish I lived in Scotland/Wales for more choice. 
I vote Labour (mainly on a regional level) and because I'm not a millionaire.
Liberal Democrats are too beige and Tories are too nasty. 
I stay out of politics nowadays because I find it all incredibly dull and self righteous. 
Interested to hear - who do you guys regard as the best party to vote for locally and nationally?

SNP until independence

As someone who is moving to Wales I actually think Plaid Cymru talk a lot of sense. 

[John Lambies Doos]

As someone who is moving to Wales I actually think Plaid Cymru talk a lot of sense. 

If I lived there that who I'd vote for

[DA Baracus]

Saw some socialist guys handing out leaflets at the weekend. They also had their wee newspaper. Their message, written on the front of the paper and on various signs, was about how to get rid of the Tories and stop austerity you should vote for Jeremy Corbyn.

 

The fucking brass neck. These guys are seriously deluded. Corbyn backs Brexit, therefore a vote for him is a vote for Brexit, and a vote for Brexit is very much a vote for austerity. Furthermore it’s pretty much a vote for the Tories, as the majority of voters in the UK see them, and only them, as the folk who can ‘deliver’ Brexit (of course they’ll deliver only a massive shambles and financially crippling loss of trade and increase of prices).

 

In addition you have to remember that they were doing this in Dundee, one of only two cities in Scotland to vote ‘Yes’, and a city where is, on a regular basis, shows of support for independence. Corbyn is against independence and Labour in Scotland seem to have a single policy, that being to stop independence at any and all costs, including forming alliances with the Tories. Yet the majority of Scotland voted against Brexit and the disaterous financial consequences that it will bring. We have been dragged in to it by lickspittle scum like the Labour party. Yet we’re supposed to vote for Corbyn?!

 

So these guys are pretty much advocating a vote for the Tories. Because the point of Labour now is simply to support the Tories.

[pandarilla]

Saw some socialist guys handing out leaflets at the weekend. They also had their wee newspaper. Their message, written on the front of the paper and on various signs, was about how to get rid of the Tories and stop austerity you should vote for Jeremy Corbyn.
 
The fucking brass neck. These guys are seriously deluded. Corbyn backs Brexit, therefore a vote for him is a vote for Brexit, and a vote for Brexit is very much a vote for austerity. Furthermore it’s pretty much a vote for the Tories, as the majority of voters in the UK see them, and only them, as the folk who can ‘deliver’ Brexit (of course they’ll deliver only a massive shambles and financially crippling loss of trade and increase of prices).
 
In addition you have to remember that they were doing this in Dundee, one of only two cities in Scotland to vote ‘Yes’, and a city where is, on a regular basis, shows of support for independence. Corbyn is against independence and Labour in Scotland seem to have a single policy, that being to stop independence at any and all costs, including forming alliances with the Tories. Yet the majority of Scotland voted against Brexit and the disaterous financial consequences that it will bring. We have been dragged in to it by lickspittle scum like the Labour party. Yet we’re supposed to vote for Corbyn?!
 
So these guys are pretty much advocating a vote for the Tories. Because the point of Labour now is simply to support the Tories.

Do you think Corbyn should go all out remain now?

He's in a no win situation with Brexit. Sometimes politics is not black and white.

[DA Baracus]

21 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Do you think Corbyn should go all out remain now?

He's in a no win situation with Brexit. Sometimes politics is not black and white.

He should do what he feels he and the people he represents feel is right.

Still doesn't change that he's a c**t though.

[welshbairn]

Do you think Corbyn should go all out remain now?

He's in a no win situation with Brexit. Sometimes politics is not black and white.

Good point, he should stop arguing against immigration too.

[pandarilla]

He should do what he feels he and the people he represents feel is right.
Still doesn't change that he's a c**t though.

I think he is doing what he feels is right. He doesn't like some of the aspects of the EU but realises the benefits it brings.

But he's also respecting a democratic vote. Can you imagine the rage amongst leave voters if a main party just decided to ignore the result?

I don't think he's a c**t at all. I disagree with him on a few issues, but I'd love other party leaders to approach things the way he does.

[John Lambies Doos]

Corbyn is made it absolutely clear he doesn't back Scottish independence. His hypocritical stance about a ship builder being the same in Glasgow and Liverpool but not in Hamburg stinks of Britnat unionism at all costs. Anyone who votes for him or his party but claims to be a Scottish nationalist is oxymoronic

 

[pandarilla]

Corbyn is made it absolutely clear he doesn't back Scottish independence. His hypocritical stance about a ship builder being the same in Glasgow and Liverpool but not in Hamburg stinks of Britnat unionism at all costs. Anyone who votes for him or his party but claims to be a Scottish nationalist is oxymoronic
 

I think he is an internationalist, and does care about that shipbuilder in Hamburg.

But his opposition to the EU is from a left wing perspective. It is one of the most powerful neoliberal organisations on the planet.

[jakedee]

The Labour Party have the same chance of changing the EU's direction of travel in Brussels as the SNP have at Westminster, He supports leaving the EU, but wants the Union to stay together ( under a Tory Govt. The majority of the time). He is the same as any Britnat Unionist.

[welshbairn]

I think he is an internationalist, and does care about that shipbuilder in Hamburg.

But his opposition to the EU is from a left wing perspective. It is one of the most powerful neoliberal organisations on the planet.

The mistake the far left seem to be approaching is confusing neo liberal economics with liberal social democracy. We can get rid of the first without losing the latter. The anti EU forces seem happy to have authoritarian far right parties succeeding if it puts one up the "liberal elite".

[NotThePars]

Good point, he should stop arguing against immigration too.

I don’t think it was a coincidence that he was rag dolling the government and bringing loads of voters back to Labour when he was sticking to the politics that he believes and not compromising his better beliefs to try and gain some support that, IMO, Labour doesn’t and shouldn’t need.

[pandarilla]

The mistake the far left seem to be approaching is confusing neo liberal economics with liberal social democracy. We can get rid of the first without losing the latter. The anti EU forces seem happy to have authoritarian far right parties succeeding if it puts one up the "liberal elite".

I agree. And I think Corbyn would agree too.

There's definitely something elitist about the EU but it does an awful lot of good, and the prospect of its replacement being more progressive is almost non existent.

But how do you square the circle about the referendum result to leave?

If Scots had voted yes but after a year or two of some sticky negotiations (which would've been inevitable) there would have been many folk calling the yes result 'not worth it'.

[Detournement]

2 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

 

 

The fucking brass neck. These guys are seriously deluded. Corbyn backs Brexit, therefore a vote for him is a vote for Brexit, and a vote for Brexit is very much a vote for austerity. Furthermore it’s pretty much a vote for the Tories, as the majority of voters in the UK see them, and only them, as the folk who can ‘deliver’ Brexit (of course they’ll deliver only a massive shambles and financially crippling loss of trade and increase of prices.

In addition you have to remember that they were doing this in Dundee, one of only two cities in Scotland to vote ‘Yes’, and a city where is, on a regular basis, shows of support for independence.

 

So these guys are pretty much advocating a vote for the Tories. Because the point of Labour now is simply to support the Tories.

 

 

 

The Twilight Zone uberNat style.

Labour are for austerity. Brexit means a right wing Brexit. Voting Labour is voting Tory. Socialists shouldn't campaign in Dundee. Labour support the Tory party.

What's the weather like in your dimension?

 

 

[John Lambies Doos]

 
 
The Twilight Zone uberNat style.
Labour are for austerity. Brexit means a right wing Brexit. Voting Labour is voting Tory. Socialists shouldn't campaign in Dundee. Labour support the Tory party.
What's the weather like in your dimension?
 
 

^britnat found

[Granny Danger]

I’d rather have Corbyn than May  in No 10.

I have severe reservations about anyone who wouldn’t.

 

[John Lambies Doos]

I’d rather have Corbyn than May  in No 10.
I have severe reservations about anyone who wouldn’t.
 

Nobody is disputing this GD. I'd have him in being propped up by the SNP any day of week. However the fact is is he is anti Scottish Independence and anti EU. He's not the political Messiah that some on here think.