ICTJohnboy Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I would quite happily vote labour in the next election if Keir Starmer was leader. (That is assuming I'm still living in Englandshire when it takes place) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, Detournement said: How exactly is Corbyn supposed to stop it? If it passes it will pass because of Tories. So, Corbyn will whip the Labour MPs to vote against it, and they will all comply? Do you really think this is likely, or are you suggesting that a number of Labour MPs are really Tories? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 42 minutes ago, Detournement said: How exactly is Corbyn supposed to stop it? If it passes it will pass because of Tories. If it passes it will be because of support from the DUP who represent no one but a collection of bigots in N.I. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Granny Danger said: If May’s Brexit deal gets past I can see many Labour Party members letting their memberships lapse and many Labour voters staying home at the next election. Such people will feel let badly down by Corbyn. Would that really matter to Corbyn and his camp followers ? He strikes me as a guy who would happily see Labour become the East Stirling of UK politics rather than temper his own ideological purity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 So, Corbyn will whip the Labour MPs to vote against it, and they will all comply? He’s already said he’ll whip against it, and can’t really do much to stop any MPs defying the whip. Mental, really, that anyone would lay the blame for May’s deal with Jeremy Corbyn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said: Would that really matter to Corbyn and his camp followers ? He strikes me as a guy who would happily see Labour become the East Stirling of UK politics rather than temper his own ideological purity. There may be a core element of ideological purists but there are tens of thousands who have been inspired by Corbyn and who will feel badly let down. 1 minute ago, Paco said: He’s already said he’ll whip against it, and can’t really do much to stop any MPs defying the whip. Mental, really, that anyone would lay the blame for May’s deal with Jeremy Corbyn. If Corbyn had been more proactive earlier then Parliament might have taken action before now. He proposed a VoC knowing it had no chance of passing and that it would unite otherwise divided Conservative MPs. He refused to support other motions that could have built cross-party support and now it’s probably too late. Should the bulk of the blame be laid at May’s door? Absolutely. Is Corbyn blameless? Absolutely not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Complete nonsense. He had a duty to bring the confidence vote and the SNP were also threatening to do it so that's a dud argument. As for amendments, which ones? Surely not the SNP ones? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 If Corbyn had been more proactive earlier then Parliament might have taken action before now. He proposed a VoC knowing it had no chance of passing and that it would unite otherwise divided Conservative MPs. He refused to support other motions that could have built cross-party support and now it’s probably too late. Should the bulk of the blame be laid at May’s door? Absolutely. Is Corbyn blameless? Absolutely not. He did what the entire world had been moaning at him for weeks to do, and called a VoC with no chance of winning. He knew he’d never win, hence he never called it, but ultimately had no choice but to make the gesture anyway. If he hadn’t, the SNP would’ve. He’s not blameless at all, obviously, and I agree with your closing statements. But in terms of Brexit I find the equivalence with May that some people seem determined to attribute to Corbyn downright barmy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonwell Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, Detournement said: Complete nonsense. He had a duty to bring the confidence vote and the SNP were also threatening to do it so that's a dud argument. As for amendments, which ones? Surely not the SNP ones? Just to correct you on that, the SNP, Libs, Plaid and the Greens did actually submit a no confidence vote and asked Corbyn to join them. He didn't and the no confidence vote at that time was ignored. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Londonwell said: Just to correct you on that, the SNP, Libs, Plaid and the Greens did actually submit a no confidence vote and asked Corbyn to join them. He didn't and the no confidence vote at that time was ignored. When was this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonwell Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Just now, Detournement said: When was this? Last December. I commented on it at the time but everyone ignored it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Probably because it was irrelevant. The SNP don't get to set Labour's timetable. The sad facts are that May's majority has stood firm throughout this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonwell Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Detournement said: Probably because it was irrelevant. The SNP don't get to set Labour's timetable. The sad facts are that May's majority has stood firm throughout this. Was just letting you know mate It's good if you you know whats happened previously, means you don't talk so much shite in the future. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, Londonwell said: Was just letting you know mate It's good if you you know whats happened previously, means you don't talk so much shite in the future. Cheers. I was a bit busy in the run up to Christmas to be paying attention to failed backbench motions. My bad. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonwell Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, Detournement said: Cheers. I was a bit busy in the run up to Christmas to be paying attention to failed backbench motions. My bad. Any time my man, I'm here to help. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 4 hours ago, lichtgilphead said: So, Corbyn will whip the Labour MPs to vote against it, and they will all comply? Do you really think this is likely, or are you suggesting that a number of Labour MPs are really Tories? If you're asking someone on the left of the Labour Party whether they think some of their colleagues or fellow members are closet Tories then I think you know the answer to that. 3 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said: Would that really matter to Corbyn and his camp followers ? He strikes me as a guy who would happily see Labour become the East Stirling of UK politics rather than temper his own ideological purity. This isn't borne out at all by reality. Corbyn's made tons of compromises. It's part of the reason why I've soured on the project. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 hours ago, NotThePars said: It's part of the reason why I've soured on the project. The full thing is about offering a left wing manifesto. Being in a position to offer that to a the largest possible proportion of the public in a general election is more important than winning the day on whatever battleground the media are choosing in the short term. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, Detournement said: The full thing is about offering a left wing manifesto. Being in a position to offer that to a the largest possible proportion of the public in a general election is more important than winning the day on whatever battleground the media are choosing in the short term. Nah. I'm not willing to concede that Labour should fight the Tories on issues such as border control and the police. They'll never be tougher on these issues than the Tories and it's jettisoning the most vulnerable to win over the middle ground. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 32 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Nah. I'm not willing to concede that Labour should fight the Tories on issues such as border control and the police. They'll never be tougher on these issues than the Tories and it's jettisoning the most vulnerable to win over the middle ground. What was in the manifesto that bothers you about this? They have pledged to end the hostile environment and remove targets. On the police they want to reverse cuts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 37 minutes ago, Detournement said: What was in the manifesto that bothers you about this? They have pledged to end the hostile environment and remove targets. On the police they want to reverse cuts. Since the election they've attempted to act tough on border security and they've repeatedly attempted to build capital out of the knife crime panic about policing cuts with their 10000 more police officers on the street pledges. To virtually no political benefit judging by the limp council elections. Maybe they should stick to the good socialist stuff they made the breakthrough with and leave the law and order shite to the Tories. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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