What is the point of Labour ?

[Clown Job]

Jam tomorrow!

 

[Antlion]

9 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

Jam tomorrow!

 

It’s almost like the “faster, safer, better change” we were promised way back in 2014 was a lot of mendacious shite.

[Guest Jedi]

......Apart from the power to set and collect all income taxes, the permanency of the Scottish parliament,  full control over oil and gas extraction, full control over most social security benefits, management of the Crown Estate (worth around £400 million), substantially increased borrowing powers,.

Leaving essentially defence, foreign affairs, currency, energy, immigration retained.

Still, we know that the Scottish Parliament and government are 'powerless' to do anything in Scotland.

[Highlandmagar]

53 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

Jam tomorrow!

 

Hot air.

[Antlion]

21 minutes ago, Jedi said:

......Apart from the power to set and collect all income taxes, the permanency of the Scottish parliament,  full control over oil and gas extraction, full control over most social security benefits, management of the Crown Estate (worth around £400 million), substantially increased borrowing powers,.

Leaving essentially defence, foreign affairs, currency, energy, immigration retained.

Still, we know that the Scottish Parliament and government are 'powerless' to do anything in Scotland.

BiB is a pathetic straw man. It’s your chief muppet who’s saying that what Scotland was promised wasn’t enough and constitutional “change” is needed. Perhaps, like his hard line against immigrant, it’s just another thing he doesn’t really mean, though.

[Guest Jedi]

Ah, immigration again....the perennial stick to beat Labour over the head with.

Hardly a straw man to cite the SNP's own claim that they are very limited in how they can govern Scotland, especially in the midst of many public sectors currently being in dispute with the government.

Devolution is always intended to be a process. The only devolved system in the world which has slightly more autonomy and powers than Holyrood is the Canadian one, and there the central government still provides transfer payments akin to Barnett.

Given that it is Labour policy to abolish the H of L, that will be replaced with a Council of the Islands. How that eventually effects the number of MP's from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland sitting at Westminster (or if indeed they will even need to), has yet to be worked out.

Independence, if administered properly, is still a better overall option. Left in the hands of the SNP alone, less so.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Jedi

[sophia]

10 minutes ago, Jedi said:

 

Given that it is Labour policy to abolish the H of L, 

Do you really want me to reshare the poster?

Also, messing with England's exceptionalism is kryptonite to the gammons they need 

 

Independence, if administered properly, is still a better overall option. Left in the hands of the SNP alone, less so.

Explain, in the context of a northern European democracy, just how our governance will remain with one political party?

Good that you've recognised the startling bleeding obvious though

 

 

[GNU_Linux]

......Apart from the power to set and collect all income taxes, the permanency of the Scottish parliament,  full control over oil and gas extraction, full control over most social security benefits, management of the Crown Estate (worth around £400 million), substantially increased borrowing powers,.
Leaving essentially defence, foreign affairs, currency, energy, immigration retained.
Still, we know that the Scottish Parliament and government are 'powerless' to do anything in Scotland.

Minor addition but drug policy is also reserved.

[Highlandmagar]

34 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Ah, immigration again....the perennial stick to beat Labour over the head with.

Hardly a straw man to cite the SNP's own claim that they are very limited in how they can govern Scotland, especially in the midst of many public sectors currently being in dispute with the government.

Devolution is always intended to be a process. The only devolved system in the world which has slightly more autonomy and powers than Holyrood is the Canadian one, and there the central government still provides transfer payments akin to Barnett.

Given that it is Labour policy to abolish the H of L, that will be replaced with a Council of the Islands. How that eventually effects the number of MP's from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland sitting at Westminster (or if indeed they will even need to), has yet to be worked out.

Independence, if administered properly, is still a better overall option. Left in the hands of the SNP alone, less so.

Is it actually Labour Party policy to abolish the House of Lords or just mealy mouthed guff from Sir Keir Starmer?

[DeeTillEhDeh]

To sell out the workng class?

[git-intae-thum]

16 minutes ago, Highlandmagar said:

Is it actually Labour Party policy to abolish the House of Lords or just mealy mouthed guff from Sir Keir Starmer?

Labour have promised this for 100 years.

 

 

[Billy Jean King]

'Populism' has been the main show in town in politics for a good few years now. Of course we saw it in the US with Trump, as well as various European countries, and we have it in the UK. 
Doesn't matter if its Starmer (interviews about immigration), Sturgeon (playing public sector workers off depending on which sits better with public mood, keeping SNP voters on board with a de facto Ref at the GE), Johnson being Johnson, Sunak aiming to claw back economic 'credibility' (although that ship has sailed for him).the Lib Dems tried it and got it spectacularly wrong with 'reverse Brexit'..it all comes down to playing to what the perceived audience is.
Ever since political parties of all persuasions starting running internal polling on what way the wind is blowing with the public mood, they have all been the same. Sadly the Brexit campaign used US methods to tap into which slogans and soundbites would play out best, and Cummings used that to effect.
It will take some time to overcome.Corbyn was probably one who largely stuck to principles rather than populism but look where that got him.

f**k me, the absolute nick of this nonsense. I suggest for starters you get a dictionary and look at the definition of populism. Your SG example really couldn't be worse if you had 100 tries.

You have got to be a Tory sock puppet, every post REEKS of it.

[Guest Jedi]

25 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

f**k me, the absolute nick of this nonsense. I suggest for starters you get a dictionary and look at the definition of populism. Your SG example really couldn't be worse if you had 100 tries.

You have got to be a Tory sock puppet, every post REEKS of it.

Any criticism of the SNP=must be a Tory automatically. Critical thinking as ever.

[Antlion]

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

 

Hardly a straw man to cite the SNP's own claim that they are very limited in how they can govern Scotland, especially in the midst of many public sectors currently being in dispute with the government.

 

That’s not what you said. 

[Clown Job]

3 hours ago, Jedi said:

Still, we know that the Scottish Parliament and government are 'powerless' to do anything in Scotland.

They’re powerless to govern Scotland like a normal nation

[Billy Jean King]

Any criticism of the SNP=must be a Tory automatically. Critical thinking as ever.

The "criticism" was a nonsense in that instance but you chose to totally ignore that part.

[Guest Jedi]

11 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

Any criticism of the SNP=must be a Tory automatically. Critical thinking as ever.

The "criticism" was a nonsense in that instance but you chose to totally ignore that part.

Populism (definitions): In political science, populism is the idea that society is separated into two groups at odds with one another- the 'pure people' and the 'corrupt elite' 

'The true populist leader claims to represent the unified 'will of the people' He (or she) stands in opposition to an 'enemy', often embodied by the current system.

 

So, a de facto Ref called at the GE, in order to express the unified will of the people, in opposition to the enemy of the Westminster system, which is denying Scottish democracy.

Society separated into two groups, the pure people (who support Independence) and the corrupt elite (the Westminster governments)

Dividing different trade unions, and public sector workers into those who are 'popular' with the public (the 'pure' people, if you like), against the more 'corrupt' (those who are unpopular with the public, and during a Cost of Living crisis, 'already' have enough money, so they don't get a pay rise.

[Guest Jedi]

44 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

They’re powerless to govern Scotland like a normal nation

Is it a 'normal' nation which seeks to alleviate the cost of living crisis for its people?

Could the SNP establish a Cost of Living Fund to provide additional support payments to the most vulnerable households? (do they have the 'powers' to do that?)

Could they provide additional funding to local councils to target and support families who are most struggling with day to day bills-(do they have the 'powers' to do that?)

Could they increase the single person Council Tax discount to around 35%, saving around £135 a year on an average property. (do they have the 'powers' to do that?)

Or could they drop an opposition to nuclear energy (driven by their coalition partners, the Greens) to be able to set up and fund lower cost energy prices-(do they have the 'power's to do that?)

Would any/all of these ideas help people in Scotland with the current crisis? I think so, and the parliament has the powers to achieve it.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Anyone getting bored by the cut and paste posts?

[sophia]

15 hours ago, Jedi said:

Devolution is always intended to be a process.

Is it and where is this established as a truism?

The only devolved system in the world which has slightly more autonomy and powers than Holyrood is the Canadian one

A quick online search would seem to challenge your assertion. Would you care to provide any objectivity to establish your veracity?

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by sophia