What is the point of Labour ?

[Guest Jedi]

On 26/11/2022 at 13:58, lichtgilphead said:

 Why is this acceptable in Wales, whilst larger pay offers in Scotland have Jedi up in arms?

Er...you will find that the pay offer in Scotland was also 5% (same as it was back in April, and the same as Wales as you state). The 'other' 6.5% of the 'deal' was only being offered to probationary teachers.

I have no idea what the Welsh Assembly (not a Parliament mind) budget is, but I do think that the Scottish govt's budget is a question for the SNP govt to answer.

[Guest Jedi]

On 27/11/2022 at 18:52, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Jedi - any thoughts?

Starmer is doing what previous Labour leaders have done - completely ignore the democratic wishes of the party membership.
 

Ignoring the wishes and votes of party membership hardly unique to Labour...have a look at the last few years of SNP Conferences.

Leader of a party making statements which he (or she) believes will play to their audience shocker-for Starmer at the moment it's (wrongly in my view btw) trying to shore up the Red Wall 'Brexit' seats next time around.  For Sturgeon, it's keeping the faithful on board with the de facto Referendum message around the GE., while playing different public sector workers off against each other, and trying to settle pay disputes with sections which the public find to be popular (or unpopular).

Starmer's rhetoric over immigration is wrong, and he is walking a fine line with this, given that I would imagine, a majority of Labour voters are Remain, and also comfortable with free movement...not all, but a majority.

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Jedi

[williemillersmoustache]

If only it was just Keir Starmers rhetoric and not his policies and the utter horsehit the rest of his horrible race baiting degenerates come out with to defend them. 

 

 

[Antlion]

8 hours ago, Jedi said:

Ignoring the wishes and votes of party membership hardly unique to Labour...have a look at the last few years of SNP Conferences.

Leader of a party making statements which he (or she) believes will play to their audience shocker-for Starmer at the moment it's (wrongly in my view btw) trying to shore up the Red Wall 'Brexit' seats next time around.  For Sturgeon, it's keeping the faithful on board with the de facto Referendum message around the GE., while playing different public sector workers off against each other, and trying to settle pay disputes with sections which the public find to be popular (or unpopular).

Starmer's rhetoric over immigration is wrong, and he is walking a fine line with this, given that I would imagine, a majority of Labour voters are Remain, and also comfortable with free movement...not all, but a majority.

 

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Lol

[invergowrie arab]

On 26/11/2022 at 11:58, Jedi said:

They were handed an extra £1.5 billion in Hunt's budget last week. There are traditionally years in which the Scot govt has underspent its budget.

That money is paid out over 2 years and can't be used to agree a financial settlement today.

[KirkieRR]

That Hinsliff article is typical Guardian 'shut up and vote Labour, oiks, we're posh and know better than you' stuff.

[Granny Danger]

58 minutes ago, Stringer Bell said:

Lol

Surely the headline should be “Starmer misleads electorate in order to attract votes”.

[williemillersmoustache]

1 hour ago, Stringer Bell said:

Lol

Quote

Those close to him make no secret of the fact that his overriding priority is not to jeopardise the victory within reach.

Keith like BawJaws is a populist win at any and all costs vote whore. 

Writes Williemillersmoustache in Pie and Bovrilian 

[Antlion]

15 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

Keith like BawJaws is a populist win at any and all costs vote whore. 

Writes Williemillersmoustache in Pie and Bovrilian 

The difference is that Johnson was (inexplicably) popular, at least amongst right-wing, immigrant hating Mail readers. Starmer isn’t popular with anyone - he’s simply reaping the benefits of the sudden unpopularity of the Tories.

If people have suddenly been confronted with diarrhoea sprayed up and down the walls, a solid turd dumped on the floor might find itself unusually welcome.

[Guest Jedi]

2 hours ago, Antlion said:

 

Bingo! Think I have a full house of about 15 SNP Bad GIFS now (always the same one though)...and that's on a post where 95% of the content was about Starmer and Labour and 5% on Sturgeon..Still, any merry whiff or mention of the Sturg gets the old Simpsons GIF signal into the sky

[Antlion]

11 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Bingo! Think I have a full house of about 15 SNP Bad GIFS now (always the same one though)...and that's on a post where 95% of the content was about Starmer and Labour and 5% on Sturgeon..Still, any merry whiff or mention of the Sturg gets the old Simpsons GIF signal into the sky

Be fair - only 5% of my posts on this thread point out your desperate whataboutery whereas 95% do not. Isn’t that a coincidence?

[Highlandmagar]

15 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Bingo! Think I have a full house of about 15 SNP Bad GIFS now (always the same one though)...and that's on a post where 95% of the content was about Starmer and Labour and 5% on Sturgeon..Still, any merry whiff or mention of the Sturg gets the old Simpsons GIF signal into the sky

Although I favour I independence, I in no way want to vote SNP in an independent country. But, at the moment Sturgeon is streets ahead of any other party leader in the UK. LibDems( Jesus!). Sunak( typical rich, corrupt Tory) Starmer( Just left of Sunak). Unfortunately Sturgeon is best of a terrible bunch. Its the best we have at the moment. 

[Antlion]

4 minutes ago, Highlandmagar said:

Although I favour I independence, I in no way want to vote SNP in an independent country. But, at the moment Sturgeon is streets ahead of any other party leader in the UK. LibDems( Jesus!). Sunak( typical rich, corrupt Tory) Starmer( Just left of Sunak). Unfortunately Sturgeon is best of a terrible bunch. Its the best we have at the moment. 

Sturgeon is an uninspiring means to an end (disappointing, as I rated her as a fighter before she became FM and seemed to tone herself down so as to offend no one). Starmer, however, isn’t just uninspiring but his “end” is the same power for its own sake.

[Salt n Vinegar]

Oops. 

Labour doing better in the polls.... right on cue, the determination to screw up their election prospects appears... former leadership candidate David Milliband hints at return to the Commons. 

Can't imagine that the Tory leaning parts of the press will make anything of that, no siree! 

[scottsdad]

17 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Oops. 

Labour doing better in the polls.... right on cue, the determination to screw up their election prospects appears... former leadership candidate David Milliband hints at return to the Commons. 

Can't imagine that the Tory leaning parts of the press will make anything of that, no siree! 

Guy was an empty suit. Years of being hailed as the next leader of the party but he had nothing going for him.

[Granny Danger]

2 hours ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Oops. 

Labour doing better in the polls.... right on cue, the determination to screw up their election prospects appears... former leadership candidate David Milliband hints at return to the Commons. 

Can't imagine that the Tory leaning parts of the press will make anything of that, no siree! 

Is he standing in the Tracy Island constituency?

[Guest Jedi]

5 hours ago, Highlandmagar said:

Although I favour I independence, I in no way want to vote SNP in an independent country. But, at the moment Sturgeon is streets ahead of any other party leader in the UK. LibDems( Jesus!). Sunak( typical rich, corrupt Tory) Starmer( Just left of Sunak). Unfortunately Sturgeon is best of a terrible bunch. Its the best we have at the moment. 

'Populism' has been the main show in town in politics for a good few years now. Of course we saw it in the US with Trump, as well as various European countries, and we have it in the UK. 

Doesn't matter if its Starmer (interviews about immigration), Sturgeon (playing public sector workers off depending on which sits better with public mood, keeping SNP voters on board with a de facto Ref at the GE), Johnson being Johnson, Sunak aiming to claw back economic 'credibility' (although that ship has sailed for him).the Lib Dems tried it and got it spectacularly wrong with 'reverse Brexit'..it all comes down to playing to what the perceived audience is.

Ever since political parties of all persuasions starting running internal polling on what way the wind is blowing with the public mood, they have all been the same. Sadly the Brexit campaign used US methods to tap into which slogans and soundbites would play out best, and Cummings used that to effect.

It will take some time to overcome.Corbyn was probably one who largely stuck to principles rather than populism but look where that got him.

[KingRocketman II]

4 minutes ago, Jedi said:

'Populism' has been the main show in town in politics for a good few years now. Of course we saw it in the US with Trump, as well as various European countries, and we have it in the UK. 

Doesn't matter if its Starmer (interviews about immigration), Sturgeon (playing public sector workers off depending on which sits better with public mood, keeping SNP voters on board with a de facto Ref at the GE), Johnson being Johnson, Sunak aiming to claw back economic 'credibility' (although that ship has sailed for him).the Lib Dems tried it and got it spectacularly wrong with 'reverse Brexit'..it all comes down to playing to what the perceived audience is.

Ever since political parties of all persuasions starting running internal polling on what way the wind is blowing with the public mood, they have all been the same. Sadly the Brexit campaign used US methods to tap into which slogans and soundbites would play out best, and Cummings used that to effect.

It will take some time to overcome.Corbyn was probably one who largely stuck to principles rather than populism but look where that got him.

populism - noun. to shoe-horn in one's own unfounded interpretation of a favoured theme and project it onto a political opponent  

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Ignoring the wishes and votes of party membership hardly unique to Labour...have a look at the last few years of SNP Conferences.
Leader of a party making statements which he (or she) believes will play to their audience shocker-for Starmer at the moment it's (wrongly in my view btw) trying to shore up the Red Wall 'Brexit' seats next time around.  For Sturgeon, it's keeping the faithful on board with the de facto Referendum message around the GE., while playing different public sector workers off against each other, and trying to settle pay disputes with sections which the public find to be popular (or unpopular).
Starmer's rhetoric over immigration is wrong, and he is walking a fine line with this, given that I would imagine, a majority of Labour voters are Remain, and also comfortable with free movement...not all, but a majority.
 

On a thread about Labour, where I didn't even mention the SNP, you resort to deflective whataboutery - and it's not even credible whataboutery.