What is the point of Labour ?

[Highlandmagar]

16 minutes ago, btb said:

 

Turning into a bit of an obsession of mine but with Starmer about to make a speech saying Labour won't seek to rejoin the Single Market but will seek to "Make Brexit Work"  another ToryLite policy you've got to repeat the opening question - what is the point of Labour?

With a heavy heart I say " No point in Labour" anymore.

[Zern]

A 'managed' opposition. Sir Kier Starmer and Sir Ed Davey may be promising change but really they are there to maintain the hierarchy and establishment.

[monthefife]

By "whole country" he means England of course. You don't have to be a political scientist to know that this persistent rhetoric from UK Labour is just to appeal to the English heartlands. "Scottish Labour" are just an irrelevant branch office filled with "messenger boys" on their behalf. It's time for them to cut ties with UK Labour officially and finally grow a spine and speak for themselves. Anas Sarwar and Jackie Baillie come across as wishful bootlickers and next in line to join in the footsteps of George Foulkes, Jack McConnell and Baroness Ruth. 

[williemillersmoustache]

Keith to deliver a major speech on why doing the right thing is too hard, only a minority of English votes matter and that mayonnaise is too spicy. 

[Dan Steele]

7 minutes ago, monthefife said:

It's time for them to cut ties with UK Labour officially and finally grow a spine and speak for themselves.

Exactly. I find it hard to believe there are no independence minded people within SLab. If there isn't a breakaway group willing to argue for indy then the whole of SLab are going to be treated with even more contempt when they have their Damascene conversion to supporting Scotland and working for all the Scottish people the day after independence. 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

I really have to laugh at those heaping scorn on Sturgeon for declaring last week that the SNP will fight the next GE on the basis of an independence mandate.

Starmer's speech is just further evidence that the dominant issue in contemporary UK politics is not maintaining the Union but how best to appeal to and pacify aggressive English nationalism.  And I have no confidence that would alter were Labour to form a Government.

[monthefife]

1 hour ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

Exactly. I find it hard to believe there are no independence minded people within SLab. If there isn't a breakaway group willing to argue for indy then the whole of SLab are going to be treated with even more contempt when they have their Damascene conversion to supporting Scotland and working for all the Scottish people the day after independence. 

Indeed. I don't believe for a minute that there's not a single pro-indy MSP in the "Scottish Labour" ranks. Based on what I've read in the past or only just recently, I'm inclined to believe that Monica Lennon, Mercedes Villalba and Alex Rowley are all very much either pro-indy or at the very least pro-referendum. But I suspect they've ben told to keep their mouths shut or find themselves losing their roles in a similar fashion to those (now former) Scottish Labour councillors. 

[williemillersmoustache]

Who are the SNP to claim the next UK election is to be fought on a single issue? 

The next election won't be fought on independence it will be fought on this, erm other single issue we want it to be about. 

Clowns

 

 

[Granny Danger]

21 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

Who are the SNP to claim the next UK election is to be fought on a single issue? 

The next election won't be fought on independence it will be fought on this, erm other single issue we want it to be about. 

Clowns

 

 

Thanks to FPTP Labour are a complete electoral irrelevance in Scotland. 

[Salt n Vinegar]

So, let me get this right. 

Starmer is set to say that the position of his party is to make sure that the UK under his leadership will not be looking at rejoining the single market or the customs union. 

Sarwar wants to legally compel two Parliaments to work together even in areas where they fundamentally disagree and even in areas where they can claim political mandates for their stances. 

Can someone explain to me in what sense there is now any meaningful difference between the Tories and Labour on Europe, and

does Sarwar's stance equate to anything except "shut up Scotland and do what you are told?

I'm not entirely sure what Starmer and Sarwar think these positions will do for Labour's electability in Scotland, but to slightly change a well known expression "if it looks like it's f#cked, and sounds like it's f#cked, the chances are, it's actually f#ucked."

Did Sarwar know in advance how Starmer was going to pish on his chips today, so he had to come up with this "Oi! You two! Please play nice!"? 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Salt n Vinegar

[btb]

The are two bad aspects to Labour chasing Tory policy

1. Nobody will really believe them so they won't win many votes from the Redwall Rednecks and will likely demotivate their core support leading to a net vote loss.
2. It lets  the Tories of scot-free to pursue even more spiteful policies which Labour are then liable to chase.

Edited July 4, 2022 by btb

[williemillersmoustache]

10 minutes ago, btb said:

The are two bad aspects to Labour chasing Tory policy

1. Nobody will really believe them so the won't win many votes from the Redwall Rednecks and will likely demotivate their core support leading to a net vote loss.
2. It lets  the Tories of scot-free to pursue even more spiteful policies which Labour are then liable to chase.

A totally bizarre situation where rather than fix the mistakes the tories have made and which have fucked up peoples lives, Labour want to get elected so they can fix the Tories policies for them and presumably f**k up people's lives more effectively. 

I fucking despise the Conservative and Unionist party but i'm really not sure whether I would rather have incompetents implementing their cunty policies badly or competents implementing demonstrably cunty things well. 

[Clown Job]

Tories will continue to run the UK into the ground while demolishing workers rights 

Labour won’t reverse any of these changes, they’ll just maintain the statue quo until the Tories get back into power.

 

[Dan Steele]

There's just a hint of Gordon Brown here, Anas:

as well as a new governance forum which would "bring together the leaders of the UK and the nations on an equal footing"

"Mr Sarwar also called for the House of Lords to be abolished..."

[Salt n Vinegar]

1 hour ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

There's just a hint of Gordon Brown here, Anas:

as well as a new governance forum which would "bring together the leaders of the UK and the nations on an equal footing"

"Mr Sarwar also called for the House of Lords to be abolished..."

 

Hah effing hah! 

It's the way he tells them.... 

[doulikefish]

Starmer only wants gammon votes that couldn't be more obvious than after today's cluster

[Granny Danger]

Hundreds of thousands of members, many more members of affiliates, hundreds of MPs/MSPs/Senedd members and thousands of Councillors; yet policy in the Labour Party seems to be getting made by a single individual.

 

[Clown Job]

They’ve been promising this for as long as I can remember 

They really should be called out for it, cause we know they are serious especially as they keep electing people to it 

[williemillersmoustache]

8 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Hundreds of thousands of members, many more members of affiliates, hundreds of MPs/MSPs/Senedd members and thousands of Councillors; yet policy in the Labour Party seems to be getting made by a single individual.

 

Nigel Farage, Johnny "mad dog" Adair or Oswald Moseley?

[welshbairn]

Labour had 4-5 years to convince England that there's a better alternative to voting Tory (they've given up on Scotland and Wales don't have many seats). Instead they're trying to persuade them that voting Labour won't change anything, so why not flip a coin and give Labour a chance? Nice dependable man instead of that nasty Boris eh? Please?

Edited July 4, 2022 by welshbairn