What is the point of Labour ?

[tamthebam]

No chance Ian Murray's one of them, is there...

[Granny Danger]

Looks like Starmer is having a real positive impact for Labour on public opinion.  Not.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/03/labour-conference-fails-to-give-party-a-bounce-in-opinion-polls

 

[williemillersmoustache]

6 hours ago, tamthebam said:

No chance Ian Murray's one of them, is there...

Because he turned his coat quite some time ago.

[G51]

Murray’s not going to defect to the Tories. He’s clever enough to know that a centrist cosplaying as soft left is exactly what the people of Edinburgh (and indeed, Scotland) want. All of the recent election results prove that.

[welshbairn]

Imagine leaving Starmer's labour party because they're too left wing. It's likely made up by the hack or some spin doctor.

Edited October 3, 2021 by welshbairn

[bendan]

7 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Imagine leaving Starmer's labour party because they're too left wing. It's likely made up by the hack or some spin doctor.

Doesn't make sense at all.

[Fullerene]

On 01/10/2021 at 19:48, BFTD said:

There's an argument that the Labour landslide in 1997 was, in England at least, less about people voting for them and more that virtually everybody was heart sick of the disgusting Tories.

The Conservatives are Teflon now. Incompetence, corruption, shagging anything that moves...these things no longer affect their electability. I shudder to think how bad things will have to get before they lose votes, but it's a long way off yet.

When Tony Blair became leader, he did a great job of being "prime minister in waiting" and not just leader of the opposition.  He also came up with "New Labour".  New is a great word, really positive, like warm or cosy.  "The New Improved Labour Party" or even just "The New Party" would have been just as good.  Never mind whether it was left or right.  It sounded good.

They knew about image and looking slick and professional. 

Once elected was a different matter.  

After 2010 they avoided looking slick and professional, they avoided using the word "new".  "Same old, same old" was the message.

Very frustrating. 

 

[Suspect Device]

They really need another tax dodging war criminal.

[BigDoddyKane]

There was a great feeling back then after years of Tory rule, someone sounding like they cared and with a positive outlook was refreshing. Ofcourse it turned into a disaster but that same sort of feeling , is what the independence movement needs for Indy2

Sweep the country along on a tide of positivity, Sturgeon and co need to cheer up a bit for that though

Edited October 4, 2021 by BigDoddyKane

[WhiteRoseKillie]

16 minutes ago, BigDoddyKane said:

There was a great feeling back then after years of Tory rule, someone sounding like they cared and with a positive outlook was refreshing. Ofcourse it turned into a disaster but that same sort of feeling , is what the independence movement needs for Indy2

Sweep the country along on a tide of positivity, Sturgeon and co need to cheer up a bit for that though

A great feeling that lasted long enough for the GBP to realise that we were, in fact, still under Tory rule. Some of them never did, hence the continued willingness to give that war criminal cúnt the platform of "a view from the Left". Absolutely fucking risible. For years the populace couldn't give a fúck about politics then, when they do, it's in an uninformed, binary, trivialising footballisation of what should actually fucking matter.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Could someone take the Labour Party to the nearest glue factory please?

Starmer [emoji23]

[scottsdad]

Interesting watching the Blair & Brown documentary on iPlayer. The one about the 2001 election was very interesting - Blair, Brown, Prescott and the rest all unhappy with Labour just winning the one election. They wanted to become a winning machine. 

Next episode - Blair shits all over himself and his party by going into Iraq. Even now, years later, he still cannot give a straight reason as to why. The seeds of Labour's destruction were sown then.

[DrewDon]

3 hours ago, scottsdad said:

Interesting watching the Blair & Brown documentary on iPlayer. The one about the 2001 election was very interesting - Blair, Brown, Prescott and the rest all unhappy with Labour just winning the one election. They wanted to become a winning machine. 

Next episode - Blair shits all over himself and his party by going into Iraq. Even now, years later, he still cannot give a straight reason as to why. The seeds of Labour's destruction were sown then.

I've watched all five episodes and thought it was good, but I especially enjoyed Blair essentially admitting that he went into politics because he visited parliament one day and thought it looked cool. 

[Chapelhall chap]

I have watched all 5 and became more puzzled as to it being the "Blair and Brown years" as Brown is only allowed a few shots of growling brows until episode 5 , whereupon disaster hits him almost immediately. Interesting to see all those fresh face New Labourites now vanished from the scene although many are in the unelected bit of British politics.. It was also fun to see the SNP MP John Nicholson in a brief TV reporting snippet. Iraq clearly is the crucial bit and Blair squirms at the end. It is worth watching and has no voice overs from presenters so it lets you do your own reactions.

[vikingTON]

8 hours ago, scottsdad said:

Next episode - Blair shits all over himself and his party by going into Iraq. Even now, years later, he still cannot give a straight reason as to why. The seeds of Labour's destruction were sown then.

They quite clearly weren't though, as Labour waltzed to another term under Blair in 2005 over the fresh corpses of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. The Tories (as usual) made Blair look like a lentil-munching, hippy pacifist in their support for the war, so it wasn't an issue that actually swung opinion towards the opposition - which is where elections are won and lost.

What many left of centre people might hope caused New Labour's downfall bears no relation to the actual decisive factor: the global economic meltdown that was bound to punt a tired, shit, mumbleclown incumbent into the bin. Unless you argue that the US deficit splurge on Iraq actually caused that financial crisis, then Brown would have been defeated regardless. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

10 minutes ago, Chapelhall chap said:

I have watched all 5 and became more puzzled as to it being the "Blair and Brown years" as Brown is only allowed a few shots of growling brows until episode 5 , whereupon disaster hits him almost immediately. Interesting to see all those fresh face New Labourites now vanished from the scene although many are in the unelected bit of British politics.. It was also fun to see the SNP MP John Nicholson in a brief TV reporting snippet. Iraq clearly is the crucial bit and Blair squirms at the end. It is worth watching and has no voice overs from presenters so it lets you do your own reactions.

They went into Brown's background in fairly extensive detail in the first episode I thought, but how much direct material can you expect from him anyway, given what a seething mess he is about everything. It's clear even viewing the series that Blair was absolutely right to put himself forward as the electable candidate from the NL point of view. As a public politician and speaker, he was streets ahead of Brown who wowed the internal Labour Party base but was unsuited to the media glare.

Blair is able even today to maintain his self-justifying arguments with a pathological degree of sincerity. Perhaps it's because he was never a party ideologue, but it made him an unusually effective leader for winning general elections. 

[Antlion]

Does the series explain Gordon Brown’s eccie jaw?

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

I get the impression that Brown is the kind of guy who shagged a million girls that lived near his Aunt’s during the holidays.

Revisionism personified.

[NotThePars]

I am a big fan of cultural explanations despite being a Marxist and Blair tapping into a very specific nasty anti-establishment in the late 90s propelled him to levels of success Labour only nearly matched when people like Aaron Bastani and Ash Sarkar were rubbing shoulders with JME and Skepta while Corbyn jogged about in an Adidas tracksuit. We'll never see it again judging by the Mumford and Sonsification of popular culture. 

[Detournement]

18 hours ago, virginton said:

They quite clearly weren't though, as Labour waltzed to another term under Blair in 2005 over the fresh corpses of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. The Tories (as usual) made Blair look like a lentil-munching, hippy pacifist in their support for the war, so it wasn't an issue that actually swung opinion towards the opposition - which is where elections are won and lost.

What many left of centre people might hope caused New Labour's downfall bears no relation to the actual decisive factor: the global economic meltdown that was bound to punt a tired, shit, mumbleclown incumbent into the bin. Unless you argue that the US deficit splurge on Iraq actually caused that financial crisis, then Brown would have been defeated regardless. 

If Brown had called the early election at the beginning of 2008 things would be very different today. Osbornomics were a total disaster and have basically crippled us as a nation. 

Btown clearly isn't a psychopath like Blair but he kept his head down in 2002-3 when he should have been brave enough to follow the lead of Robin Cook. 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Detournement