What is the point of Labour ?

[Granny Danger]

Starmer wants to reduce internal party opposition to the extent that when he offers Tory-Lite policies at the next GE there will be no dissent from the PLP.

It’s not going to happen.

[John Lambies Doos]

Genuinly think you might see a change in some Scottish Labour politicians once Johnson romps in at next General Election

[NotThePars]

6 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Genuinly think you might see a change in some Scottish Labour politicians once Johnson romps in at next General Election

I think the best you'll see is folk like Lennon or Rowley saying there should be another referendum. 

I reckon posters on here and Twitter could easily tie Paul Sweeney into enough knots that he backs another referendum as well. He loves getting into increasingly tortured arguments about federalism.

[John Lambies Doos]

I think the best you'll see is folk like Lennon or Rowley saying there should be another referendum. 
I reckon posters on here and Twitter could easily tie Paul Sweeney into enough knots that he backs another referendum as well. He loves getting into increasingly tortured arguments about federalism.

I say big bad broon is up to his tricks. Would he ever just go away......

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Just now, John Lambies Doos said:

Genuinly think you might see a change in some Scottish Labour politicians once Johnson romps in at next General Election

The only thing that will allow the tories to win next time is if Labour continue to rip themselves apart. I for one am of the opinion that we should be getting rid of not only starmer, but also the whole back-room meddlers like Mandelson. There are still real socialists in the Party, many of whom (like me) are not willing to give it back to the red tories of the Bliar years. We even have socialists in the PLP, and the likes of John Trickett, Ian Lavery, Richard Burgon, and RLB understand the North more than Starmer ever will. As does one Laura Pidcock, who will soon be back to the fore of the Party.  And no, I am not advocating ripping the party apart. I am advocating reclaiming the Party for the workers. 

Gove was pathetic on Ridge yesterday - every question answered with "look at the vaccines" - the one piece of shit which stuck to the Covid wall now doing duty as a skimpy wee fig leaf which can't come close to covering up the Brexit fúck-ups, the corruption, the impending employment crisis, the ongoing ACOBA shenanigans, the sub-postmasters Miscarriage of justice, and the rest of the crap that's rolling towards a government with no idea of how to use trheir powers in any way that benefits anyone who isn't a relative or party donor. 

[SANTAN]

Laura Pidcock and Richard Burgon are probably the two most empty headed politicians I've ever seen in my life. Genuinely the worst in ability I think I've ever seen. Burgon is hilarious, his leadership bid was nothing short of sensational. I don't think they "understand the North" in any meaningful way, Burgon barely understands how to tie his shoe laces let alone try and understand issues within Politics, they weren't even useful lackies. 

[John Lambies Doos]

Laura Pidcock and Richard Burgon are probably the two most empty headed politicians I've ever seen in my life. Genuinely the worst in ability I think I've ever seen. Burgon is hilarious, his leadership bid was nothing short of sensational. I don't think they "understand the North" in any meaningful way, Burgon barely understands how to tie his shoe laces let alone try and understand issues within Politics, they weren't even useful lackies. 

Tell it like it is@Stormzy ...Don't hold back [emoji1787]

[GiGi]

38 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

Laura Pidcock and Richard Burgon are probably the two most empty headed politicians I've ever seen in my life. Genuinely the worst in ability I think I've ever seen. Burgon is hilarious, his leadership bid was nothing short of sensational. I don't think they "understand the North" in any meaningful way, Burgon barely understands how to tie his shoe laces let alone try and understand issues within Politics, they weren't even useful lackies. 

Bold statement while Dross is still in parliament and his boss is probably one of the most incompetent politicians the country has ever produced. 

[SANTAN]

22 minutes ago, GiGi said:

Bold statement while Dross is still in parliament and his boss is probably one of the most incompetent politicians the country has ever produced. 

Douglas Ross is also shit. Kinda irrelevant in the Labour thread right enough. I don't think incompetent politicans can make it to PM by defintion either but. 

[Salt n Vinegar]

1 hour ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

The only thing that will allow the tories to win next time is if Labour continue to rip themselves apart. I for one am of the opinion that we should be getting rid of not only starmer, but also the whole back-room meddlers like Mandelson. There are still real socialists in the Party, many of whom (like me) are not willing to give it back to the red tories of the Bliar years. We even have socialists in the PLP, and the likes of John Trickett, Ian Lavery, Richard Burgon, and RLB understand the North more than Starmer ever will. As does one Laura Pidcock, who will soon be back to the fore of the Party.  And no, I am not advocating ripping the party apart. I am advocating reclaiming the Party for the workers. 

Gove was pathetic on Ridge yesterday - every question answered with "look at the vaccines" - the one piece of shit which stuck to the Covid wall now doing duty as a skimpy wee fig leaf which can't come close to covering up the Brexit fúck-ups, the corruption, the impending employment crisis, the ongoing ACOBA shenanigans, the sub-postmasters Miscarriage of justice, and the rest of the crap that's rolling towards a government with no idea of how to use trheir powers in any way that benefits anyone who isn't a relative or party donor. 

I think the Labour Party is unelectable in the UK now.  There is no longer a mass working class mentality, certainly (IMO) not in England to which they can appeal.  The last figures I saw for trade union membership was about 6.5m but nobody could seriously suggest they are all left wing, or even that they are all Labour supporters. 

Blair won election after election, realising that Labour can't win an election in England by going "left", but rather than support a Blair-type leader, the Labour left would prefer to drink Boris Johnson's piss, which in a way is exactly what they are doing by refusing to recognise electoral reality.  They might as well chain themselves to the opposition benches as the "left" won't tolerate a centre/right leadership and the electorate in England won't vote a leftist party into government.  It seems to me that these factors combine to render Labour impotent in England. 

That is the electorate that Sarwar is relying on to give him relevance. 

[SANTAN]

[G51]

Adonis playing the hits, YLTSI

[Glen Sannox]

2 hours ago, Stormzy said:

Laura Pidcock and Richard Burgon are probably the two most empty headed politicians I've ever seen in my life. Genuinely the worst in ability I think I've ever seen. Burgon is hilarious, his leadership bid was nothing short of sensational. I don't think they "understand the North" in any meaningful way, Burgon barely understands how to tie his shoe laces let alone try and understand issues within Politics, they weren't even useful lackies. 

Burgon is horrific. Beyond dim. 

[btb]

3 hours ago, Donathan said:

For all that Hartlepool and the north of England was a disaster, Labour’s dominance in London seems to be expanding into the surrounding counties these days.

Very weird times when Hartlepool is voting Tory and Oxfordshire is voting Labour.

 

3 minutes ago, Donathan said:

 

Places like Canterbury have surprisingly gone red in recent years, it's a sign of Labour becoming a party of the well educated, socially liberal middle class. If Boris continues down the route of wooing red wall seats with a mixture of small c conservativism and big state spending, these long time Tory heartlands will move more and more away from the Tories. I think what voters in those areas want is low taxes and progressive social values. I agree that the Lib Dems are more likely to take a lot of them than Labour but it does open up the potential for a Lab/Lib coalition government in the future even if the red wall has turned blue for good.

Society is fragmenting, the Public Sector aside the big unionised workplaces which provided Labour's core support for generations have gone and those in the gig economy don't seem to see the potential benefit in voting for Labour. As you've have pointed out it's becoming the  of the well educated, socially liberal middle class - that's looking unlikely to be enough to win elections in the near future.

I can't see Starmer repeating the Blair trick of winning from the right on a "more competet/no sleaze" ticket (baffles  me) - New Labour also had two policies which chimed with people back in 97 - Educatiom x3 and Tough on Crime Tough on the Causes of Crime - Starmer has nothing yet.

To recover Labour has to forge alliances of workers/supporters who will vote for it - that means supporting public services and appealing to younger voters who are finding it hard to get on the housing ladder and tapping into green politics which NIMBYs aside is left of centre, some form of Green/Red alliance - they're not gonna win by playing it safe.

I say this as someone who hopes to view a Labour recovery down South from a newly independent Scotland.

[dirty dingus]

They talked to Shabana Mahmood on radio 4 earlier and it was brutally bad, when asked about direction and policy all she kept mentioning was buzz words, think tanks and trying to ride about 3 horses at the one time.

[BigDoddyKane]

1 hour ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

I think the Labour Party is unelectable in the UK now.  There is no longer a mass working class mentality, certainly (IMO) not in England to which they can appeal.  The last figures I saw for trade union membership was about 6.5m but nobody could seriously suggest they are all left wing, or even that they are all Labour supporters. 

Blair won election after election, realising that Labour can't win an election in England by going "left", but rather than support a Blair-type leader, the Labour left would prefer to drink Boris Johnson's piss, which in a way is exactly what they are doing by refusing to recognise electoral reality.  They might as well chain themselves to the opposition benches as the "left" won't tolerate a centre/right leadership and the electorate in England won't vote a leftist party into government.  It seems to me that these factors combine to render Labour impotent in England. 

That is the electorate that Sarwar is relying on to give him relevance. 

Thats a good analysis I think o current situation

[BigDoddyKane]

14 hours ago, Donathan said:

 

Places like Canterbury have surprisingly gone red in recent years, it's a sign of Labour becoming a party of the well educated, socially liberal middle class. If Boris continues down the route of wooing red wall seats with a mixture of small c conservativism and big state spending, these long time Tory heartlands will move more and more away from the Tories. I think what voters in those areas want is low taxes and progressive social values. I agree that the Lib Dems are more likely to take a lot of them than Labour but it does open up the potential for a Lab/Lib coalition government in the future even if the red wall has turned blue for good.

does that mean you think that those well educated, socially liberal middle class voters and members of Labour now , have little empathy or concern about the traditional voters of Labour which is why the Labour party is failing to get their vote anymore? 

maybe a bit simplistic but just a thought as to why its incapable now of reaching out to those areas is that its not listened to those areas in years and created policy to reflect that 

[George Parr]

27 minutes ago, Glen Sannox said:

Burgon is horrific. Beyond dim. 

Who can forget his ‘peace pledge’ plan. 

[BigDoddyKane]

36 minutes ago, btb said:

 

Society is fragmenting, the Public Sector aside the big unionised workplaces which provided Labour's core support for generations have gone and those in the gig economy don't seem to see the potential benefit in voting for Labour. As you've have pointed out it's becoming the  of the well educated, socially liberal middle class - that's looking unlikely to be enough to win elections in the near future.

I can't see Starmer repeating the Blair trick of winning from the right on a "more competet/no sleaze" ticket (baffles  me) - New Labour also had two policies which chimed with people back in 97 - Educatiom x3 and Tough on Crime Tough on the Causes of Crime - Starmer has nothing yet.

To recover Labour has to forge alliances of workers/supporters who will vote for it - that means supporting public services and appealing to younger voters who are finding it hard to get on the housing ladder and tapping into green politics which NIMBYs aside is left of centre, some form of Green/Red alliance - they're not gonna win by playing it safe.

I say this as someone who hopes to view a Labour recovery down South from a newly independent Scotland.

That reminds me of something I noticed during the last General Election, I had to work nighshift and sky news was on in background as the count was being announced I would check it out. I noticed something surprising and it was pretty consistent. When the count is announced they always show the activists with the winning and losing. The tories at activist level were more multi-culutural than Labour were in most seats. Thats how it looked it anyway and after noticing it, I was looking out for it and it was same throughout the night.

Edited May 10, 2021 by BigDoddyKane

[scottsdad]

I remember after the 2019 election Richard Burgon going on radio 5 live saying that the reason Labour lost was because Tony Blair lost 4 million votes between 1997 and 2005. 

The same guy who said this:

Now I have issues with many politicians for their judgement, maturity, ego, etc. But this guy is just a cluster of wrongheadedness.