What is the point of Labour ?

[GiGi]

On 03/04/2021 at 11:23, NotThePars said:

Remember this goof Theresa May made?

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/theresa-may-general-election-christian-fundamentalism-gay-exorcism-homophobia-abortion-a7762561.html

"Theresa May just visited a homophobic Christian fundamentalist church – how can gay voters trust her?" 

That church was Jesus House.

Now guess which church Keir Starmer just visited for Good Friday.

Yep, you guessed it!

 

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56644740

I, for one, am shook

[NotThePars]

Well by the lofty standards he placed on Rebecca Long Bailey he should step down. 

[Granny Danger]

2 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

The full details of the poll are quite something:

https://www.survation.com/first-hartlepool-phone-poll-has-conservatives-in-driving-seat/

49% voting Tory v 42% voting Labour, with Reform UK only taking 1% where Brexit Party had taken 25%. That 24% drop corresponding with a 20% increase in the Tory vote from 2019 v a 4% increase in the Labour vote.

As an aside the Northern Independence Party, having started as a meme from the shitposting left on twitter before deciding to become a real party, are already polling higher than the Lib Dems and Greens with 2%  

Meanwhile, 67% say funding public services should be a priority v 24% who say it should be cutting the deficit, 43% & 42% want a 3% or 10% pay rise for nurses v 12% supporting a 1% pay rise or none, 57% want Royal Mail renationalised v 29% who want it to stay private, and 69% support free broadband by 2030 v 18% who oppose.

It's almost as if, despite Corbyn's personal unpopularity, these policies are actually extremely popular in the North of England and by far the biggest factor in their collapse in 2019 v 2017 was changing their Brexit policy to support a second referendum. A policy which was driven by, erm, Keir Starmer.

Good thing then that now Brexit is finished as an electoral issue, the Labour Party are reverting to having no policies and people having no idea what they stand for. That'll get the Brexit Party voters back!

So almost 50% will vote Tory despite a majority supporting policies that the Tories won’t implement.

I fucking despair at people’s utter stupidity.

 

[btb]

2 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

The full details of the poll are quite something:

https://www.survation.com/first-hartlepool-phone-poll-has-conservatives-in-driving-seat/

49% voting Tory v 42% voting Labour, with Reform UK only taking 1% where Brexit Party had taken 25%. That 24% drop corresponding with a 20% increase in the Tory vote from 2019 v a 4% increase in the Labour vote.

As an aside the Northern Independence Party, having started as a meme from the shitposting left on twitter before deciding to become a real party, are already polling higher than the Lib Dems and Greens with 2%  

Meanwhile, 67% say funding public services should be a priority v 24% who say it should be cutting the deficit, 43% & 42% want a 3% or 10% pay rise for nurses v 12% supporting a 1% pay rise or none, 57% want Royal Mail renationalised v 29% who want it to stay private, and 69% support free broadband by 2030 v 18% who oppose.

It's almost as if, despite Corbyn's personal unpopularity, these policies are actually extremely popular in the North of England and by far the biggest factor in their collapse in 2019 v 2017 was changing their Brexit policy to support a second referendum. A policy which was driven by, erm, Keir Starmer.

Good thing then that now Brexit is finished as an electoral issue, the Labour Party are reverting to having no policies and people having no idea what they stand for. That'll get the Brexit Party voters back!

I lived in Newcastle for a coupla years and have friends & family in Liverpool and Manchester too - back in 2014 I used to say to them you'd be better off as the South of Scotland - they laughed at the time but they're a bit quieter these days. 

[GordonS]

On 04/04/2021 at 13:30, San Starko Rover said:

SLAB baffles me with their blind hatred of the SNP, yes they’re Unionists and that’s a Red line for them, fair enough. But surely it’s better to work with the SNP in Scotland than the Tories. The Tories are pretty much at odds with everything the Labour Party stand for except Unionism. Labour would achieve far more up here by working with the government on areas they agree, they can still refuse to back independence. 2014 BT destroyed Labour and it wasn’t the SNP that did it to them it was the Tories who basically used Labour as fall guys for the Vow. Sarwar would be better to continue to distance his party from the Tories but find areas to work with the government on and he might get through some of his policies through compromise. Something being in a pro Union pact with DRoss will never achieve. He’s got 2 policies 1. SNP Bad and 2. No Referendum.

When the SNP came to prominence in the 1970s Labour were still a party of the working class and trade unions. Solidarity was and is rightly a vital part of representing the working class against the bosses. The SNP were seen as class splitters who would weaken the strength of the working class in the UK. Labour supporters felt that the working class across Britain had much more in common with each other than with the middle class in each constituent part, needed to stick together, and that the SNP would divide coal miners, car manufacturers, steel workers etc.

The Tories have always been a threat to the interests of Labour supporters but not much of an electoral threat, in that Labour were never worried about losing lots of voters to them. But the SNP took "their" voters, and that combined with them seeing the SNP as splitters is where the hatred comes from.

Early serious contests between the SNP and Labour in places like West Lothian were brutal affairs and led to polarisation. The hatred started from the Labour side but was soon reciprocated, and Labour came to be seen as anti-Scottish by SNP supporters.

That hatred is real btw, you see it at election counts and on councils, especially in the central belt. And the main reason Scottish Labour are in the state they are in is because they said that supporting independence makes you a bad person, a blood-and-soil nationalist, so they drove their independence-minded supporters into the arms of the SNP. 

[picklish]

4 hours ago, GiGi said:

Labour leaflet in the door. "We will focus on what unites us as a country - not what divides us"

What the f**k would that be, exactly?

They didn't bother telling me who the local candidate is, they're betting the house on Sarwar

[DrewDon]

The Tories could well win in Hartlepool, but individual constituency polling is pretty volatile and the aforementioned poll has a relatively small sample size. Whilst I have some doubts about Starmer, I don't think it would have been much different for Labour under either of the candidates who stood against him for the leadership - probably a bit worse.

I'm also pretty sceptical about polling voters on individual policies, such as free broadband. Most voters might support it in theory, but simultaneously not think that it should be a priority or fully trust certain parties to deliver it. 

[Detournement]

Brexit plus Tory had 7000 votes more than Labour in 2019. It's the Tories to lose.

 

[NotThePars]

The banter outcome is still that the NIP vote costs Labour the seat. I don't think it's likely but it's about time the wreckers started directly facing the consequences for what they did.

[G51]

[Boo Khaki]

Starmer is the biggest fucking let down since the Morocco game in WC '98.

Presumably he has actually heard of the English Civil War?

[Granny Danger]

48 minutes ago, G51 said:

[scottsdad]

On the subject of talking to parents, my dad spoke about Labour the other week. He said that when he was younger, Labour was the party of the "ordinary working man". That isn't the case these days. They've become a talking shop for *minor* issues only (his words). The people who were for the ordinary working man in the 80s are still there, but the working man has moved on from the heavy industry days. 

By minor issues I think he's talking about foodbanks and the like which are very important, but aren't gonna win anyone an election.

Put bluntly, he isn't sure what Labour is for nowadays either, but knows what they were for. 

 

[NotThePars]

5 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

On the subject of talking to parents, my dad spoke about Labour the other week. He said that when he was younger, Labour was the party of the "ordinary working man". That isn't the case these days. They've become a talking shop for *minor* issues only (his words). The people who were for the ordinary working man in the 80s are still there, but the working man has moved on from the heavy industry days. 

By minor issues I think he's talking about foodbanks and the like which are very important, but aren't gonna win anyone an election.

Put bluntly, he isn't sure what Labour is for nowadays either, but knows what they were for. 

 

Did he vote for them 2015-2019?

[scottsdad]

Just now, NotThePars said:

Did he vote for them 2015-2019?

No, he's been SNP since about 2005.

[Arsenal till I die]

2 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

Starmer is the biggest fucking let down since the Morocco game in WC '98.

Presumably he has actually heard of the English Civil War?

"Is the leadership challenge going in? Oh yes it is!"

[spongeheid15]

1 hour ago, scottsdad said:

No, he's been SNP since about 2005.

One of the sheep

[John Lambies Doos]

One of the sheep [emoji207][emoji207]

Any idea of who you will be voting for@spongeheid15 ?

[spongeheid15]

1 minute ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Any idea of who you will be voting for@spongeheid15 ?

Anybody bar Nicoliar 

[John Lambies Doos]

Anybody bar Nicoliar 

Are you in her constituency?