What is the point of Labour ?

[Paco]

He’s still ahead in the opinion polls and I don’t see the country at large giving a f**k about Jeremy Corbyn or CLP members.

In terms of winning the next election he’s on the right track. For now, at least until he’s finally out-ghouled by the Tories (I’m guessing at this stage sinking illegal immigrants) and gammon England sticks with the party it really wants to vote for.

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

1 hour ago, Paco said:

He’s still ahead in the opinion polls and I don’t see the country at large giving a f**k about Jeremy Corbyn or CLP members.

In terms of winning the next election he’s on the right track. For now, at least until he’s finally out-ghouled by the Tories (I’m guessing at this stage sinking illegal immigrants) and gammon England sticks with the party it really wants to vote for.

Even Corbyn was ahead in the polls before his first election. Polls are meaningless if people aren't motivated to turn out. Keir Starmer has the personality of a wet stump. I just don't see people rushing out to vote for him.

[Paco]

Even Corbyn was ahead in the polls before his first election. Polls are meaningless if people aren't motivated to turn out. Keir Starmer has the personality of a wet stump. I just don't see people rushing out to vote for him.

Corbyn was never ahead with any consistency, only the occasional outlier put Labour ahead with him at the helm, and usually very very narrowly.

I’m not necessarily sticking up for Starmer, he is indeed a wet blanket. But if the job is to win the next election - which it surely is - he’s currently on track. Which given the mess he inherited is all the more extraordinary.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

The media have largely given Starmer a free pass up until now.

He's currently neck and neck or slightly ahead of the most openly corrupt, clowncar government in history.

That and the fact there's no route to an overall majority without Scotland, means he's probably not on track to win anything at the moment.

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

1 minute ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

The media have largely given Starmer a free pass up until now.

Of course they have. He's on the right side of the media and Israel.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

The media have largely given Starmer a free pass up until now.
He's currently neck and neck or slightly ahead of the most openly corrupt, clowncar government in history.
That and the fact there's no route to an overall majority without Scotland, means he's probably not on track to win anything at the moment.

Spot on. The current WM government is a monumental shambles, eclipsed only for sheer lunacy by Trump's. Any competent opposition should be fucking miles ahead. Obvs "opposition" is doing some fairly heavy lifting where Starmer is concerned.

[Jeff Venom]

Bit of a reductionist question maybe, but for those who remember, how does the present position measure with the demise of the last Tory gov and the rise of Blair's party to power?

Was the previous Tory gov under Major a steaming cesspit of corruption and cronyism as well, that evetually reached a tipping point of acceptability in the eyes of the public?

 

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

There's also going to be culture wars stuff too, and Sir Keith himself will be bang in the firing line as an ex human rights lawyer.

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, Paco said:

 

Corbyn was never ahead with any consistency, only the occasional outlier put Labour ahead with him at the helm, and usually very very narrowly.

I’m not necessarily sticking up for Starmer, he is indeed a wet blanket. But if the job is to win the next election - which it surely is - he’s currently on track. Which given the mess he inherited is all the more extraordinary.

 

 

Listen,

I woke up this morning
Got myself a gun
Mama always said I'd be
The chosen one
She said, you're one in a million
You've got to burn to shine
But you were born under a bad sign
With a blue moon in your eyes

I woke up this morning
All that love had gone
My papa never told me
About right and wrong
But Keir's looking good, baby
I believe he's feeling fine, shame about it
Born under a bad sign
With a blue moon in his eyes

And even I have to admit that any other leader would be 20 points ahead. I'm sad to say but it's time he stepped aside for the good of the country.

[CambieBud]

So Sir Keir man of the people Starmer supports the increase in defence spending, paid for by freezing public sector pay? Bevin Attlee et al would soooo proud

[Thistle_do_nicely]

2 hours ago, MixuFruit said:

It's a bit long ago now but I seem to remember it was more they were outwardly messaging all this back to basics stuff about being nice and decent and married and straight etc. while shagging about or being found dead wearing stockings with an orange shoved in your mouth. There was a bit of actual corruption like Neil Hamilton getting embroiled in cash for questions but I feel like it was dominated by moral hypocrisy and a press that attacked this.

You're not going to get any turn against the tories until brexit is done, and probably even then it won't work because surprise surprise with more retirees than working age people we are going to need immigrants to come here, and try as they might, Labour can't out-xenophobe the tories.

i was a lot younger alas, but i can remember my dad seething a few times over Peter Mandelson somehow being completely indestructible despite some high profile scandals - can also vividly mind my (pretty cool as they go) history teacher explaining when there was murmuring of him getting back involved he would effectively have to come back as a Lord - i think he could no longer be in the commons? - which sure enough came to pass.

Jack Straw got caught up in Cash 4 Access too iirc?

Edited November 20, 2020 by Thistle_do_nicely

[Boo Khaki]

New Labour were hardly scandal-free either, but aye, people just got sick fed up of Tory moralising, and the sight of an entire Tory campaign where the main message was 'behave like a 17th Century Puritan' while Major was busy shagging Edwina Curry, David Mellor knobbing models who then spilled their guts to the tabloids etc etc

[Benjamin_Nevis]

aye but they were both Labour. Jack Straw's cash for access stuff was quite recent.

Didn't Labour hold off on banning tobacco ads in F1 after getting a hefty donation from Eccleston?

[Boo Khaki]

Mittal, Blunkett fast-tracking things as personal favours through the Home Office, the aforementioned Ecclestone disgrace, Mandelson resigning, twice, after being caught up to his neck in the shit, Blair basically hanging Dr David Kelly out to dry and his resultant murder, Hinduja Brothers, probably umpteen others I've forgotten. Right shower of shits NL were.

Oh, and the ridiculous sight of Blair flying out to the Libyan desert to hobnob with Gaddafi, shortly after describing him as one of the world's worst despots since Adolf bloody Hitler, simply because they needed a stoolie to take the heat for Lockerbie, then Brown's government's utterly disgraceful bullying of Abdel Basset Al-Megrahi, including totally ignoring Scots Law.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Boo Khaki

[Detournement]

I totally agree about standards. Neil Hamilton and the rest of the Tory sleaze squad from the 90s were tame by current standards. Once openly giving your mates billions of pounds is normalised there's not really much left to get worked up about.

[welshbairn]

4 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

Mittal, Blunkett fast-tracking things as personal favours through the Home Office, the aforementioned Ecclestone disgrace, Mandelson resigning, twice, after being caught up to his neck in the shit, Blair basically hanging Dr David Kelly out to dry and his resultant murder, Hinduja Brothers, probably umpteen others I've forgotten. Right shower of shits NL were.

Oh, and the ridiculous sight of Blair flying out to the Libyan desert to hobnob with Gaddafi, shortly after describing him as one of the world's worst despots since Adolf bloody Hitler, simply because they needed a stoolie to take the heat for Lockerbie, then Brown's government's utterly disgraceful bullying of Abdel Basset Al-Megrahi, including totally ignoring Scots Law.

I remember getting disturbed by "new labour" very early on after the glorious feeling when they got rid of the Tories, when Gordon and Tony thought they could give F1 a unique pass for tobacco advertising for another couple of years, after receiving a huge wedge from Bernie Ecclestone for Labour Party funds. 

P.S. Just realised I didn't read back properly.

Edited November 20, 2020 by welshbairn

[Boo Khaki]

Personally, I found NL particularly repugnant, because not only were they as crooked and self-interested as the Tories, they went about their shysterism while trying to pretend they actually gave a f**k about, and were themselves, just ordinary people. Utter class traitors if that's the case, and I've rarely felt as much satisfaction at the demise of a political movement as I did the day Brown was unceremoniously dumped from office. I fucking despise Tories, but at least they stab you in the front and make no attempt to hide the fact they are utter c***s. NL were every bit as cunty, but condescending, two-faced, and fucking hypocritical with it. I'm glad Thatcher's long dead, but I'd never have physically assaulted her, whereas Blair is one of very few people I doubt I'd be able to resist crossing the road to thump in the puss.

I view Blair as the single biggest factor in the slide of UK politics into the cult-of-personality, conviction and policyless shitfest it has now become. NL, the focus groups, and the style of government whereby you figure out what people want to hear rather than what they actually need, all Blair through and through.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Boo Khaki

[Granny Danger]

16 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

Personally, I found NL particularly repugnant, because not only were they as crooked and self-interested as the Tories, they went about their shysterism while trying to pretend they actually gave a f**k about, and were themselves, just ordinary people. Utter class traitors if that's the case, and I've rarely felt as much satisfaction at the demise of a political movement as I did the day Brown was unceremoniously dumped from office. I fucking despise Tories, but at least they stab you in the front and make no attempt to hide the fact they are utter c***s. NL were every bit as cunty, but condescending, two-faced, and fucking hypocritical with it. I'm glad Thatcher's long dead, but I'd never have physically assaulted her, whereas Blair is one of very few people I doubt I'd be able to resist crossing the road to thump in the puss.

I view Blair as the single biggest factor in the slide of UK politics into the cult-of-personality, conviction and policyless shitfest it has now become. NL, the focus groups, and the style of government whereby you figure out what people want to hear rather than what they actually need, all Blair through and through.

Agree with all of that other than not being willing to assault Thatcher.  I only ever had one opportunity but she was surrounded by armed protection officers and I had a young family at the time.

[Boo Khaki]

Well in fairness, for most of her reign of terror I was either a bairn or an adolescent, but by the time she finally got the axe, I probably could have dished out a decent kicking to her if I'd really wanted.

[Mark Connolly]

16 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

Personally, I found NL particularly repugnant, because not only were they as crooked and self-interested as the Tories, they went about their shysterism while trying to pretend they actually gave a f**k about, and were themselves, just ordinary people. Utter class traitors if that's the case, and I've rarely felt as much satisfaction at the demise of a political movement as I did the day Brown was unceremoniously dumped from office. I fucking despise Tories, but at least they stab you in the front and make no attempt to hide the fact they are utter c***s. NL were every bit as cunty, but condescending, two-faced, and fucking hypocritical with it. I'm glad Thatcher's long dead, but I'd never have physically assaulted her, whereas Blair is one of very few people I doubt I'd be able to resist crossing the road to thump in the puss.

I view Blair as the single biggest factor in the slide of UK politics into the cult-of-personality, conviction and policyless shitfest it has now become. NL, the focus groups, and the style of government whereby you figure out what people want to hear rather than what they actually need, all Blair through and through.

I initially thought you meant North Lanarkshire.

Same arguments apply, I suppose.