What is the point of Labour ?

[vikingTON]

^^^ scrambling for relevance

[Gordon EF]

30 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Independence for Labour is like Remain. You can say 70% of their voters are in favour of it but as difficult as this is for certain people to comprehend 30% is still a significant proportion of your voters that can't just be tossed away.

To paraphrase a moron the SNP need a strongish Labour. The single worst political thing that could happen in Scotland is the entire unionist vote coalescing around the Tories and the Lib Dems. 

I wouldn't call Labour "strongish". More "very much down but not quite out". But, as you say, I'm more than happy to have them permanantly hobbled but still limping on enough to split the unionist vote.

Labour are in an extremly difficult position on independence. If they'd softened their stance years ago, they might have stopped the deluge of votes to the SNP.But where they are now, their position is almost irrelevant no matter what without some other strong reason to vote for them.

If your vote is swayed by your constitutional position, why would you switch back to a yes-leaning Labour party?

There's no easy way back for Labour in Scotland. I think pinning themselves to the union jack has been disastrous and they absolutely do need to move away from that hardline position but they can't come out tomorrow and just be pro-indpendence. They need to come up with a convincing vision for Scotland that at least leaves wiggle room on independence. But that seems about as likely as Jackie Baillie coming out as an full on independence supporter.

Edited August 25, 2020 by Gordon EF

[Boo Khaki]

I don't believe there's any way back for Scottish Labour that doesn't begin with detaching themselves from Westminster Labour.

After all, they've said one thing and been promptly over-ruled by the Westminster leader on umpteen occasions in the past, so why should anybody believe anything a Scottish leader promises or anything the Scottish party does, even if it does appear to be a significant about face and represent a light-bulb going on? They can just be slapped straight back into their box like they have several times before.

This, as much as anything, is why they continue to be completely and utterly irrelevant. They can think it's because they've been elbowed out of the way on policy and ideology by the SNP, or that it's down to a lack of talent and inability to convince with their own arguments, or even that it's down to their constitutional position, but in reality all of that doesn't really matter if they simply can't be taken seriously in the first place regardless of actual policy. 

Leonard could come out tomorrow and declare whatever the hell you like, but the truth of the matter is that until it's endorsed by and also pursued by the Westminster leader, it matters not a jot. You'd be as well voting for Wullie Rennie based on Labour Policy, or Richard Leonard of the back of whatever the Lib Dem manifesto says. It's all meaningless because they have zero autonomy.

[vikingTON]

The branch office can't detach themselves from Westminster because their paltry membership simply can't raise the funds to fight a nationwide election campaigns more years than not.  

[Boo Khaki]

I guess they're rubber ducked then. 

[NotThePars]

They're fucked either way. They could've used the Corbyn years to articulate his and McDonnell's off-the-cuff but completely sensible honest appraisals of the situation up here regarding a second referendum but as usual they threw their usual tantrum and continued their deserved decline.

They're like Habsburg Spain at the death of Charles the Bewitched. The glory days are long gone, the coffers are empty, there's a dearth of talent, the vultures are circling, they're incapable of exerting any influence or projection beyond their own shrinking borders, and they're failing to quell the civil war brewing within them. 

 

[DrewDon]

Scotch Labour: too wee, too poor, too stupid. 

[renton]

1 hour ago, NotThePars said:

They're fucked either way. They could've used the Corbyn years to articulate his and McDonnell's off-the-cuff but completely sensible honest appraisals of the situation up here regarding a second referendum but as usual they threw their usual tantrum and continued their deserved decline.

They're like Habsburg Spain at the death of Charles the Bewitched. The glory days are long gone, the coffers are empty, there's a dearth of talent, the vultures are circling, they're incapable of exerting any influence or projection beyond their own shrinking borders, and they're failing to quell the civil war brewing within them. 

 

Also, incest.

[NotThePars]

16 minutes ago, renton said:

Also, incest.

Ian Murray, yes

[Benjamin_Nevis]

1 hour ago, MixuFruit said:

Pagger time

https://mobile.twitter.com/KieranPAndrews/status/1300915093199257601

Any leader with an ounce of self respect should be firing any "demands" from Jenny Marra straight into the bin. She's an unapologetically lying, clueless arsehole.

Jackie Baillie as leader would be tremendous entertainment though. 

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

So, the same fucking goons who have been the same constant in Scotch Labour's fall from natural party of governance to clowncar irrelevance have now decided it's all Dickie Leonard's fault ?

Strange timing anyway. The SNP have just adopted Labour's National Care Service policy that Leonard was pretty vocal about. 

Jackie Baillie ffs. Just fold SLAB.

 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Do the right have anywhere near the same level of "you're too left / you're not left enought" vitriol as the left? It genuinely seems like they don't. Could be shite but I heard someone suggesting this is at least partly due to greater authoritarianism amongst those on the right. Of course they'll happily get thier hands bloody to knife their leaders but they don't seem to have the same type of infighting.

The pro business and anti-foreigner sides of the Tory partly have been fighting over Europe for longer than I can remember

[invergowrie arab]

What's obvious from this thread and Twitter is how many SNP supporters clearly fear Jackie Baillie

[Antlion]

5 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

What's obvious from this thread and Twitter is how many SNP supporters clearly fear Jackie Baillie

Wouldn’t you?

 

[kennie makevin]

If that slavering half -witted enabler of sectarian bigotry James Kelly has no confidence in Richard Leonard then maybe the Labour leader might actually be on the correct path ??

[SandyCromarty]

Kelly on BBC Radio Scotland this am calling for Leonard to resign, so far another two Labour MSP's have joined.

If Leonard goes how many labour leaders have there been in Holyrood.

I know there is always bitching in political parties but over the years hasn't there been various attacks on Baillie from within her party, some even calling her a liar.

At 14% support for labour within Scotland I doubt any new leader could revive their political fortunes.

[Londonwell]

Imagine being told you're not good enough at your job by Jenny Marra, James Kelly and Jackie Baillie. This is low, even for SLAB. 

[G51]

It's best for the left if Leonard does resign now, plenty of time before May 21. That way, when Scottish Labour reaches it's nadir, a centrist will be running it and the inevitable attempts to blame the left won't apply.

[invergowrie arab]

I think Anas Sarwar is self serving enough to see where the wind is blowing on Indy and do a complete 180.

They will elect Baillie though and will manage to swap a few seats with Tories as the SNP romp to a thumping majority.

Interesting to see the ultra unionist wing of Labour now in absolute end game ultra panic mode, as well they might be.

[Ludo*1]

As far as SLAB politicians go, I really like Richard Leonard. That means this can only be good news.