Antlion Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Detournement said: As I've said before it may already be too late by then if they have followed the Growth Commission plan. And given it passed the conference it's obviously their intention. If it's neoliberal independence I'm not voting for it. Couldn’t wait to vote for an alt-right neoliberal Brexit though. Where was “the fear” of Johnson and Co leading the UK to independence from the EU? Edited May 14, 2020 by Antlion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Antlion said: Couldn’t wait to vote for an alt-right neoliberal Brexit though. A Corbyn Brexit wouldn't have been any of that. I voted Remain btw but I'm obviously glad to be leaving the EU. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Detournement said: A Corbyn Brexit wouldn't have been any of that. I voted Remain btw but I'm obviously glad to be leaving the EU. A Corbyn Brexit was never on the table, so the non sequitur doesn’t really work. You claim you have “the fear” of an SNP-led break from the UK, but are “obviously glad” to be leaving the EU under Johnson and his far-right band of arseholes. Forgive me if I don’t for a second believe your claims of opposing capitalist political unions when you’re busy refusing to leave one and happy to see it grow stronger under disaster capitalists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Antlion said: A Corbyn Brexit was never on the table, so the non sequitur doesn’t really work. You claim you have “the fear” of an SNP-led break from the UK, but are “obviously glad” to be leaving the EU under Johnson and his far-right band of arseholes. Forgive me if I don’t for a second believe your claims of opposing capitalist political unions when you’re busy refusing to leave one and happy to see it grow stronger under disaster capitalists. If he had won the 2017 election it would have been. He wasn't that far away and that's with Labour HQ deliberately trying to lose. It's more difficult to change the EU than the UK. And I think the likelihood is that under the current SNP plans Scotland would have bigger problems than the UK. I don't expect everyone to agree with that but it's hardly pie in the sky stuff. Achieving an independent Scotland that reduces inequality and is able to rise to the challenges of the 21st century is a huge historic task. When I look at the SNP I don't see people who are up to it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 12 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: Who in Scotland does seem up to it in your view? No one. I think it's fair to say that our politicians have shrunk to meet the challenges of devolution. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 3 hours ago, MixuFixit said: As I've said before who cares what the SNP want to do if we can just form a new party and change it all back? You'll be middle aged at least before Labour get a sniff of power in the UK and only if they don't do anything radical. How many of you are there and how do you know you aren't heavily outnumbered by the grifters and centrists that are going to stick by the successor party that will inevitably shape the post-indy settlement? I've said many times I'll vote Yes the next time it comes up but I'm not convinced that there are that many comrades in the SNP or they're just remarkably quiet. 2 hours ago, welshbairn said: On day one? I see Slovakia shared the Czechoslovakian currency for a short period before fixing their own to a basket of foreign currencies. '43-2-1635.pdf 1.79 MB · 1 download I won't pretend to know much about economics but I think I understand politics and the UK in general and isn't the big problem here that the Czechoslovaks had an amicable mutual break up whereas we'll be breaking away from a much larger state that's repeatedly proven it's run by selfish and stubborn children? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Detournement said: No one. I think it's fair to say that our politicians have shrunk to meet the challenges of devolution. I don't think it's about the standard of politician because Westminster is filled with dreadful arseholes as well it's more that, for whatever reason, there's too many party drones across every party and doesn't appear to be the same culture of backbench independence. ETA: that could be what you're saying tbf Edited May 14, 2020 by NotThePars 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB_Bino Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 I'm the same except there would have to be a political party who were more to the left than the SNP There is:https://scottishsocialistparty.org 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Detournement said: If he had won the 2017 election it would have been. He wasn't that far away and that's with Labour HQ deliberately trying to lose. It's more difficult to change the EU than the UK. And I think the likelihood is that under the current SNP plans Scotland would have bigger problems than the UK. I don't expect everyone to agree with that but it's hardly pie in the sky stuff. Achieving an independent Scotland that reduces inequality and is able to rise to the challenges of the 21st century is a huge historic task. When I look at the SNP I don't see people who are up to it. Yet you’re happy to be leaving the EU, presumably seeing Johnson and his cronies as the jolly good fellows up to the task of turning the historically capitalist union of the UK into a leftist paradise. It becomes clearer and clearer that you support one capitalist institution and are willing to be led by the far right to empower it at the expense of another. As I said, you’re about as much a socialist as Adam Smith. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonwell Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 Detournement voted for independence and voted to remain but doesn't want either to happen, come off it, he's at it. It wouldn't matter what prospectus was put forward he would change his view accordingly so that he could oppose it. Spend time more wisely by trying to convince someone who hasn't already made up their mind. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 hour ago, NotThePars said: I don't think it's about the standard of politician because Westminster is filled with dreadful arseholes as well it's more that, for whatever reason, there's too many party drones across every party and doesn't appear to be the same culture of backbench independence. ETA: that could be what you're saying tbf What I meant in particular was that the narrow focus of the devolution settlement has narrowed the outlook of the parties and politicians. Sturgeon has never really had to lay her politics on the table in the way that Starmer undoubtedly will in the next 12 months. Holyrood seems far more homogeneous than Westminster which is probably just a reflection of class divisions in Scotland compared to the UK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Londonwell said: Detournement voted for independence and voted to remain but doesn't want either to happen, come off it, he's at it. It wouldn't matter what prospectus was put forward he would change his view accordingly so that he could oppose it. Spend time more wisely by trying to convince someone who hasn't already made up their mind. I'm totally honest on my views and my votes. My own politics have developed since 2014 and I didn't see the left resurgence in England coming. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB_Bino Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 I didn't see the left resurgence in England coming. A left resurgence in England will never be enough to put a Left party in power, once the penny dropped for me, that was the point where I started to believe in Scottish independence. I’ll be 40 later this year and I genuinely think the only hope I ever have of living under a Leftist or even a Centralist government is in an independent Scotland. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonwell Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, Detournement said: I'm totally honest on my views and my votes. My own politics have developed since 2014 and I didn't see the left resurgence in England coming. Remind me who's in government in Westminster and is currently polling over 50%? Left resurgence hasn't amounted to much. I'm sorry, I'm sure you're a good chap but the amount of intellectual gymnastic's it takes to get to your positions on these things, I just don't see the point in debating them with you. Maybe I'm wrong but I get the impression that you'll never support independence or that you just enjoy being a contrarian on here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 I'll never support the Growth Commission or the current (or past) SNP leadership. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 2 hours ago, BB_Bino said: There is: https://scottishsocialistparty.org Aye, but I bide in Perth and they have never (as far as I remember) had a candidate in any elections here. Also my first objective is Scottish independence (so that is a vote for the SNP) then I'll look at my options. 48 minutes ago, Detournement said: I'm totally honest on my views and my votes. My own politics have developed since 2014 and I didn't see the left resurgence in England coming. What left resurgence? You're dreaming. A royalist is the heid man of this so-called socialist party. The same party that is in bed with the Tories in Scotland. Both staunch unionists, both in favour of keeping Trident in Scotland and both in favour of Scotland paying her share of expensive English projects. 28 minutes ago, Detournement said: I'll never support the Growth Commission or the current (or past) SNP leadership. What would make you vote for independence for Scotland? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, Wee Willie said: What would make you vote for independence for Scotland? The majority of this sub-forum to be against it and the far right in England to be in favour of it, judging by his form. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 6 hours ago, Wee Willie said: Why should we accept a share of the UK debt when it was the UK who made the debt? For a share of the assets 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 6 hours ago, Wee Willie said: GD you and I are on the same side of the fence but that is bollocks. Surely if an independent Scotland is given a bill by the rUK government then we would presumably ask for it to be itemized. Trident = x amount HS2 = y amount Other expensive English only projects = z amount Would you or anyone else seriously expect us to pay for these? Also surely if we were expected to pay eg 10% of these then we should also get 10% of UK assets. There's enough creative accountants on here that could make the balance sheet err balance. see my reply to GD 20 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: For a share of the assets That's in my reply to GD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Antlion said: It becomes clearer and clearer that you support one capitalist institution and are willing to be led by the far right to empower it at the expense of another. As I said, you’re about as much a socialist as Adam Smith. I read someone years ago claim Smith would've been a communist if he was born a century later 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.