What is the point of Labour ?

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, scottsdad said:

Much like Republicans in the US checking the driving licenses and proof of addresses of black voters

I assume you’re not being serious with that comparison.

[scottsdad]

Not at all. I trust Corbyn's cabal not a jot. They are not above this.

[Detournement]

The faction to keep an eye on here are definitely the ones who turned the other cheek for four years and not the scumbags who created the dodgy dossier and hounded David Kelly to death.....

 

[NotThePars]

I see Rory Scothorne is still finishing his PhD all these years later

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/06/labour-scotland-voters-lost-snp

I like him.

[Detournement]

I think that is between him and his adviser. 

His articles are always worth a read. 

[NotThePars]

I do too, but he's spending a long time putting on intellectual airs and graces while not seeming to finish his PhD. What's it been, 5, 6 years now?

I wouldn’t want to speculate on why someone’s taking their time to finish a PhD given the noted mental health problems documented among students. I’ve met him a few times and he doesn’t give off a posturing faux-intellectual vibe like a certain Dr Bastano either.

[NotThePars]

I think that is between him and his adviser. 
His articles are always worth a read. 

Yeah I don’t see the issue with the article. Think it summarises the problems in the party and the fact it continues to be a minority position is why Slab are going to get deservedly annihilated in 2021. Cant wait to get kicked out after I say I can’t vote for them in good conscience.

[Detournement]

2 hours ago, NotThePars said:

 

Yeah I don’t see the issue with the article. Think it summarises the problems in the party and the fact it continues to be a minority position is why Slab are going to get deservedly annihilated in 2021. Cant wait to get kicked out after I say I can’t vote for them in good conscience.

 

You don't get kicked out for not supporting Labour. Just for not supporting Likud. 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

The manifesto had some good policies in it, sure. But think back to 1997 (bear with me). Labour's best weapon at that time was a card with 5 key policies on it:

Now, for any of you (like me) old enough to remember 1997, the key issues of that election were large class sizes, youth crime and long waiting lists. In the news all the time. Every day. Three of these pledges addressed that, and the others were a "don't spook middle England" exercise. Like it or not, if you spook the (naturally conservative) middle England you will lose. 
Anyway, my point is this. The best election campaigns have kept it really simple. This pledge card didn't mention all what was in the manifesto (devolution, minimum wage, the social chapter and all that stuff). The really socialist ideas were there if anyone wanted to look. There was a manifesto, sure - but 99% of the electorate will never read a manifesto. So this pledge card was there and handed out across the country. 5 ideas, 5 talking points, simple and reassuring. 
Now look at 2019. Labour's manifesto - over 100 pages long - what were the key points? Well, Labour never bothered defining them and so let everyone else do it for them. It came down to - for most people - tax the rich, nationalise everything, free broadband, convoluted Brexit stuff. There was nothing simple here. The Tories went the other way and campaigned on 3 words. Their manifesto, by contrast, is a bit empty. 
I don't agree with Richard Burgon that the next election needs to keep every single policy in there (yes, he said this). Labour needs to strip it down. Stick to some important, attractive policies and keep the rest back for the future. And don't spook the horses or they'll bolt back to the Tories, every time. 

Good point

Corbyn struggled to set the agenda

In 1997 Labour achieved this by simply handing out cards with the agenda written on them.

Ed Milliband’s ill fated attempt to replicate this trick but with a giant gravestone shows that you’ve got to be careful though

[Antlion]

1 hour ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

 

Good point

Corbyn struggled to set the agenda

In 1997 Labour achieved this by simply handing out cards with the agenda written on them.

Ed Milliband’s ill fated attempt to replicate this trick but with a giant gravestone shows that you’ve got to be careful though

 

Don’t forget their “we will appease racists” mugs.

[AUFC90]

The Ed Stone [emoji23]

[Donathan]

Just voted online in the Labour leadership election. I have a vote as a member of an affiliated union. Much more inclusive than when I applied to actually join the party years ago in a north-east of England constituency only to be told: "We're full up". Anyway, dutifully read through the candidates' statements. Long-Bailey - more of the same and calling for endorsement whether we live in Blyth or Brixton. Despite her shamefully excluding the people of Bangor (both places} and Brigadoon she was nominated by both Dundee CLPs and also Angus and the Mearns (readers of Lewis Grassic Gibbon, no doubt}.
Nandy's statement was eloquent and heartfelt and she does come over as a thoroughly decent person. I think she was endorsed by the NUM whilst Lavery nominated Long-Bailey, and this after the union buying him a house - ungrateful b*****d.
Starmer's statement implied keeping most of the good stuff from the last manifesto but having it championed by an electable leader. Starmer's MP nominations included those of Doughty and Hardy (going for the staunch vote); Timms (going for the less staunch vote); and Slaughter (going for the psychopath vote).
 
 
 

Why exactly do you suggest that Andy Slaughter is a psychopath?

[Thane of Cawdor]

1 hour ago, Donathan said:

 

 

Why exactly do you suggest that Andy Slaughter is a psychopath?

 

 

Obviously because I am an unquestioning believer in nominative determinism, or because I looked at the names of MPs endorsing the various candidates and thought I would attempt a lame joke on the subject. I would have thought readers of the post would have concluded that the latter was the case. Seemingly not. 

[Miguel Sanchez]

8 hours ago, AUFC90 said:

The Ed Stone

Rule number one of political declarations of intent: make them so vague you're immune from criticism when they don't come off and can easily claim them if only the slightest hint of them being achieved is realised:

Ah, where the country would be if he'd won. 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Miguel Sanchez

[scottsdad]

It's actually quite interesting comparing the Ed Stone with the pledge cards. The cards actually have a bit of detail on how they will do stuff. The stone is just word salad aspirational guff. Look at points 2 and 5 - tell me how, Ed!

Long Bailey has a habit like this - not sure if you've noticed. She takes a word and bolts on a lefty-sounding word in front of it which sucks out the meaning: progressive patriotism, democraric economy and so on.

[welshbairn]

12 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

It's actually quite interesting comparing the Ed Stone with the pledge cards. The cards actually have a bit of detail on how they will do stuff. The stone is just word salad aspirational guff. Look at points 2 and 5 - tell me how, Ed!

Long Bailey has a habit like this - not sure if you've noticed. She takes a word and bolts on a lefty-sounding word in front of it which sucks out the meaning: progressive patriotism, democraric economy and so on.

Reminds me of the Millenium Dome, just a load of placards saying things like "The Future is coming, be a part of it", with a few jugglers half a mile away. I'd rather die thanks.

[ICTChris]

Is the new Labour leader still being announced this week?

I was reminded when I saw this meme, that made me heartily laugh

[Detournement]

The PLP thinking big. 

[Antlion]

Don’t anyone tell him about the “Scottish” Labour Party; the grievance will be off the scale. I genuinely thought this was parody but he’s deadly serious. There’s Scottish cringe and then there’s whatever the f**k this is. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Don’t anyone tell him about the “Scottish” Labour Party; the grievance will be off the scale. I genuinely thought this was parody but he’s deadly serious. There’s Scottish cringe and then there’s whatever the f**k this is. [emoji23]

To think that Ian Smart was one of the founders of Scottish Labour Action.

Now an uber-Unionist w**k of the first degree.