What is the point of Labour ?

[vikingTON]

20 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I wouldn't be so sure about that, Corbyn led Labour to the biggest swing in vote share since 1945 in 2017.

...and still lost the election by a comfortable margin against a robotic incompetent. 

The biggest issue however is probably not the ideology (which when put together as a package is rarely as popular as standalone policies) but rather its messenger. The mumbleclown attracts devoted loyalty from his bizarre minority cult, but is generally unpopular in the country. Yougov polling finds that fully 50% of the population have a negative view of him - the prospect of putting that incompetent mumbleclown in charge of anything is the obstacle that Labour will never be able to overcome; yet his leadership is unassailable within the ever-narrowing base of his own party. 

It's a recipe for a decades in the political wilderness. 

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, Donathan said:

 

Foodbanks weren't exactly on the rise under Tony Blair or Gordon Brown, in fact for as much of the Tory benefit reforms being (rightfully, IMO) criticised, I remember in the latter half of the last decade a lot of public ire being directed at the Labour government for being too generous with benefits. Umunna and his pals seem to align their economic views most closely with the new Labour governments, not exactly the right wing of the Tory party.

 

1 hour ago, WATTOO said:

That's because it's only now we're seeing the effects of their policies feed through.

Nothing happens overnight as you should know, however selling off your assets to private enterprise and foreign asset strippers and lowering taxation for the wealthy only ever ends in one way and it's the poorest in society who pick up the tab as always.........

Very good.

[sophia]

31 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I wouldn't be so sure about that, Corbyn led Labour to the biggest swing in vote share since 1945 in 2017.

and lost.

[vikingTON]

4 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

I've said this loads of times but I don't see how you can't fling the same accusations made at Corbyn's Labour's electability back at the independence campaign. Every day Brexit is a shambles and the polls don't shift. Yes were campaigning against a godawful campaign in Better Together and still lost. Both have similar margins for victory and both are surely starting at a much better position than they were before. Both are battling a hostile media climate and both are battling against a long held unchallenged consensus although ofc the Union is 312 years old to Thatcherite economic orthodoxy's 30+.

The independence campaign contains pretty much all of the big hitters in Scottish politics today and a more popular national leader; whereas the Mumbleclown's shadow Cabinet has both an unpopular leader among the general public and the likes of Diane fucking Abbott kept in key positions due solely to their ideological loyalty to the great leader. The glass ceiling of the two movements in any future campaign are therefore different; there are very, very few people who are going to change their mind about Corbyn's Labour on the back of the past two years.  

[Jacksgranda]

26 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Polling since the last GE would suggest that many Remain voters gave their vote to Labour under the mistaken impression that Labour were an anti-Brexit party.  There was also the 'Corbyn bounce' which attracted voters to the party because he was something new(sic) and different.

All that is gone now.

It beggers belief that Labour still can't overtake the worst government in UK history. I've no proof to back it up, but I belief that if a GE was held tomorrow then the Tories would strengthen their position.

 

Reigning back slightly from them "romping home"?

[Granny Danger]

42 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I wouldn't be so sure about that, Corbyn led Labour to the biggest swing in vote share since 1945 in 2017.

Stop it.  People don’t want facts like to get in the way of their totally uninformed opinions!

I remember the hype before the 2017 GE when all the ‘in the know’ pundits were predicting that Corbyn was going to get annihilated because he was a Marxist creep who was an anti-Semite.

Surprisingly most of these pundits are still in their jobs. 

[AUFC90]

So that'll be a big- I've no idea what i'm talking about, then. Cool. 

You're welcome.

[John Lambies Doos]

Have any of the other blairites left yet?

[Fullerene]

1 hour ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Polling since the last GE would suggest that many Remain voters gave their vote to Labour under the mistaken impression that Labour were an anti-Brexit party.  There was also the 'Corbyn bounce' which attracted voters to the party because he was something new(sic) and different.

All that is gone now.

It beggers belief that Labour still can't overtake the worst government in UK history. I've no proof to back it up, but I belief that if a GE was held tomorrow then the Tories would strengthen their position.

 

I think Remain voters saw the Tories as the party for full-strength Brexit.

They also saw Labour as the party for a more diluted version of Brexit or possibly no Brexit at all.
Yes, the Labour manifesto mentioned respecting the vote to Leave but Corbyn was seen as a weak leader so maybe that wouldn't happen.

There are plenty people on this forum who would agree that not all Leave voters voted leave for the same reason.
Similarly, not everybody voted Labour for the same reason.

I imagine Labour winning one additional seat at the next election and that being regarded as a great victory - "The campaign goes on!!"

It's like relying on continental drift to solve all your problems.

[sophia]

21 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

I think Remain voters saw the Tories as the party for full-strength Brexit.

They also saw Labour as the party for a more diluted version of Brexit or possibly no Brexit at all.
Yes, the Labour manifesto mentioned respecting the vote to Leave but Corbyn was seen as a weak leader so maybe that wouldn't happen.

There are plenty people on this forum who would agree that not all Leave voters voted leave for the same reason.
Similarly, not everybody voted Labour for the same reason.

I imagine Labour winning one additional seat at the next election and that being regarded as a great victory - "The campaign goes on!!"

It's like relying on continental drift to solve all your problems.

One more push comrades, one more push.

Trouble is 5 years further in the future and its a movie we have seen time and time again.

 

[NotThePars]

I think Remain voters saw the Tories as the party for full-strength Brexit.

They also saw Labour as the party for a more diluted version of Brexit or possibly no Brexit at all.

Yes, the Labour manifesto mentioned respecting the vote to Leave but Corbyn was seen as a weak leader so maybe that wouldn't happen.

There are plenty people on this forum who would agree that not all Leave voters voted leave for the same reason.

Similarly, not everybody voted Labour for the same reason.

I imagine Labour winning one additional seat at the next election and that being regarded as a great victory - "The campaign goes on!!"

It's like relying on continental drift to solve all your problems.

 

There's been one general election since Corbyn and it ended with the Tories losing their near universally predicted majority. If there's another election and Labour aren't in the pole position to form a government then I take your point.

 

[Detournement]

37 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

Yes, the Labour manifesto mentioned respecting the vote to Leave but Corbyn was seen as a weak leader so maybe that wouldn't happen.

 

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, Fullerene said:

I think Remain voters saw the Tories as the party for full-strength Brexit.

They also saw Labour as the party for a more diluted version of Brexit or possibly no Brexit at all.
Yes, the Labour manifesto mentioned respecting the vote to Leave but Corbyn was seen as a weak leader so maybe that wouldn't happen.

There are plenty people on this forum who would agree that not all Leave voters voted leave for the same reason.
Similarly, not everybody voted Labour for the same reason.

I imagine Labour winning one additional seat at the next election and that being regarded as a great victory - "The campaign goes on!!"

It's like relying on continental drift to solve all your problems.

Can’t imagine anyone seeing that as a great victory tbh.  

Mind you with the deliberate splitters and the jaundiced bile from the MSM neither could a result like that be seen as a significant defeat.

 

[Detournement]

Even if Labour lose the next election there will be no return to the kind of policies which will appease Chukka's paymasters.

 

 

 

 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

2 hours ago, NotThePars said:

 

You've done this, as far as I can see, for every bold assertion you've made. 

Given Labour pledged in the last election to accept the referendum result I have no idea how people voted for them under the mistaken impression they were an anti-Brexit party. They still increased their vote by an unprecedented amount. 

 

I've said this loads of times but I don't see how you can't fling the same accusations made at Corbyn's Labour's electability back at the independence campaign. Every day Brexit is a shambles and the polls don't shift. Yes were campaigning against a godawful campaign in Better Together and still lost. Both have similar margins for victory and both are surely starting at a much better position than they were before. Both are battling a hostile media climate and both are battling against a long held unchallenged consensus although ofc the Union is 312 years old to Thatcherite economic orthodoxy's 30+.

I've never once made an 'assertion'. I've always said that my posts were opinion only.

I'd love to see though the facts that suggest that this Labour party under Corbyn are at some point going to sweep to power. It's been pointed out that historically UK electoral success comes from conquering the centre ground in British politics.

Labour are nowhere near doing that, and in fact, don't actually seem to want that. No wonder moderate centrists in the Labour party are tearing their hair out.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

15 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Can’t imagine anyone seeing that as a great victory tbh.  

Mind you with the deliberate splitters and the jaundiced bile from the MSM neither could a result like that be seen as a significant defeat.

 

You're stepping into the world of Daily Mail bile here.

On one side, people are 'traitors', on the other side they're 'deliberate splitters'.  If you're not with us, you're against us.

It seems that extremists and ideologues on both sides of the political spectrum are out of control.

[Colkitto]

The next Westminster election will be determined on how good or bad the Tories do. I don't think there will be a massive surge to Labour and Corbyn. He's failed to make any real inroads in the polls against one of the most abysmal Tory governments in history.

If there is a "bad" Brexit, either a no deal or May's deal and it impacts greatly on jobs and living standards then people may switch to Labour in England. 

England appears to be getting more right wing. With the Blairites out of Labour they could be looked upon as too far to the left by the electorate in England.

It's really difficult to predict how this will all pan out as we enter the Brexit twilight zone. Ideal scenario is Corbyn needs the SNP to get the keys to No 10. 

Edited February 19, 2019 by Colkitto

[Detournement]

They made huge in roads in the polls as soon as the last GE campaign started despite it being massively disrupted by three huge terror attacks. They can do it again, the people who will decide the next election are barely paying any attention to politics at the moment.

42% of English voters went for a left wing manifesto. The facts suggest that England is now more left wing than Scotland.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2019 by Detournement

[Guest]

I think we've reached a stage in our society where pretty normal "centrist" views are now portrayed as "marxist", "left wing", "socialist ideology" etc, etc.

We saw the sort of Daily Mail style "outrage" when the SNP had a token tinker with taxation but of course the SNP are portrayed as "marxist" for this, meanwhile having our streets littered with homeless and children coming to school starving is somehow seen as "normal".

As I said previously, this country and peoples attitudes have changed an awful lot in the past decade or so and NOT for the better as far as I'm concerned..............

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

2 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

I think we've reached a stage in our society where pretty normal "centrist" views are now portrayed as "marxist", "left wing", "socialist ideology" etc, etc.

We saw the sort of Daily Mail style "outrage" when the SNP had a token tinker with taxation but of course the SNP are portrayed as "marxist" for this, meanwhile having our streets littered with homeless and children coming to school starving is somehow seen as "normal".

As I said previously, this country and peoples attitudes have changed an awful lot in the past decade or so and NOT for the better as far as I'm concerned..............

You're right, and that's why this vacuum that has been created in the centre of British politics is so dangerous and why it's so frustrating that Labour seem to have disappeared somewhere up their own wee socialist arsehole.

The UKIP-isation of British politics is gathering force and Labour swinging to the left isn't doing anything to stop it. Brexit is nothing more than a right-wing coup, and it's shameful that Corbyn has helped move it merrily along.