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What is the point of Labour ?


pawpar

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So, what's the craic with this, then? Genuine attempt to start a new party, or a wee cadre stepping away for a bit and hoping somehow this Corbyn lad gets punted before they have to face the electorate again? Also, what are the fundamental differences in political opinion that New New Labour feel they couldn't work out with Old Labour, or does this just come down to wanting to f**k Corbyn over?

And finally, how long before someone starts the "will the Tories ever lose another Westminster election?" thread?

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There's a lot of people over-reacting to this.  The SDP was formed by senior Labour Party politicians - Roy Jenkins was a former Chancellor and Home Secretary, David Owen was a former Foreign Secretary., Shirley Williams had been Education Secretary and Bill Rodgers Transport Secretary (when that still had responsiblities for nationalised railways etc).  They were real big beasts, whereas the people leaving in this instance don't have as big a following or influence in the country.  Jenkins won the Hillhead by-election, if there was a similar election now none of these would win it or even get close.

I think some people enjoy going apoplectic about things, some like having their oddball conspiracism validated and others are getting their excuses in early for future failures.

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12 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

There's a lot of people over-reacting to this.  The SDP was formed by senior Labour Party politicians - Roy Jenkins was a former Chancellor and Home Secretary, David Owen was a former Foreign Secretary., Shirley Williams had been Education Secretary and Bill Rodgers Transport Secretary (when that still had responsiblities for nationalised railways etc).  They were real big beasts, whereas the people leaving in this instance don't have as big a following or influence in the country.  Jenkins won the Hillhead by-election, if there was a similar election now none of these would win it or even get close.

I think some people enjoy going apoplectic about things, some like having their oddball conspiracism validated and others are getting their excuses in early for future failures.

It's different times, these people have been plotting and using the media to launch a sustained assault on Labour and of course Corbyn and Mcdonnell for months.

The fact that we're even discussing this tells us that these people DO have an influence, whether they SHOULD have any influence is an all together different debate.

Make no mistake, this whole episode is designed to inflict as much damage to socialism as possible as there's quite a few people with potentially quite a lot to lose should Labour get into power.

Their political careers may or may not be over, but I'm sure they'll come out of it pretty well one way or another, as I said, watch this space.............

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Jaysus.... the International Group mired in racism row on day one. Useless bunch of right-wing erseholes.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/17440988.new-labour-splitter-party-accused-of-racism-within-three-hours-of-launching/

 

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The Independent Group formed by ex-Labour MPs has stumbled into a racism scandal within three hours of launching.

Chuka Umunna, Luciana Berger, Chris Leslie, Angela Smith, Gavin Shuker, Mike Gapes and Ann Coffey are among the MPs from the party's centrist wing who have been the loudest critics of Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, his stance on Brexit and his handling of allegations of anti-Semitism.

They announced their departure from the party at a 10am press conference on Monday, forming what they call the Independent Group in Westminster.

However within three hours of launching they were already facing accusations of racism after Angela Smith reffered to the black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) community as "funny tinged".

 

 

 

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I'm certainly not here to to stand up for Corbyn or the wider Labour party. Honesty in politics is very important too me, unfortunately there is very little of it at least at what I call the 'showpiece' level. Constituency offices across the country is where politics actually works for people. 
The only people that politics works for are politicians and their relatives.
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Bit ominous from Tom Watson today.

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"Now we’ve lost Luciana, one of our most dedicated and courageous MPs. If someone like her no longer believes there is a role for her in the Labour party then many other colleagues will be asking themselves how they can stay.”

 

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4 hours ago, DrewDon said:

That's a bit of a howler.

 

That’s unbelievable. I’m sure we’ve all had moments where our mind has gone blank and we’ve said something that is not exactly what we meant but how does anyone who has a history of TV/Speaking in public ever end up choosing that as an appropriate thing to say? It’s mental under any circumstances never mind if you’ve just done something supposedly as a reaction against racism? :lol:

Edited by Rodhull
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Surely if they were careerists then they wouldn't be doing this?  They aren't stupid, they know they'll likely lose whichever seat they stand in.
The properly careerist thing to do would be for them to get in line behind Corbyn.


I think many of them might have been in line for deselection or facing the prospect of their CLPs refusing to campaign for them at the next election. I do think they have principles as well though, it’s just they’ve represented an unquestioned orthodoxy which has allowed them to portray themselves as non-ideological.

Because if the split in labour is repeated in Scotland, they verge into SSP territory
 


Maybe. My own experiences within Scottish Labour suggests that the people who are wavering atm will be happy to see folk like Umunna, Smith and Gapes f**k off.
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