Peppino Impastato Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 3 hours ago, pandarilla said: What are you talking about? Labour governments in the past have done an awful lot for the people of Scotland. Why would you think that would not be possible again? You mean the labour government that was sending chunks of our taxes back to wm unspent or the one that burdened us with billions in PFI for the next Forty years? Or perhaps the one that redrew the sea boundary the night before the Scottish parliament opened to steal a large chunk of Scotland's wealth? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Detournement said: Lol NHS. Lol decent housing. Lol employment rights. Oh yeah actually you make a great point. The last labour government built six council houses. The SNP have built about thirteen thousand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: The way this is heading at the moment independence in the EU would put a hard border with passport controls and customs checks on the Solway and Tweed. There's no way you are going to get 50% + for that any time soon, so Scotland is like a Siamese twin being forced to move around at the whim of a conjoined sibling with severe special needs because the risk of separation is just too high. There may be some truth in this argument but we will have to wait and see. Ypu could equally argue that the polls ain't shifted yet because brexit ain't yet happened and folk are still a bit head in sand about the consequences. ......Anyways...the failed Siamese twin.... what a sad sad indictment of Scotland in the union. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 The other thing could be indy Scotland having a trade agreement and movement of people with the EU and a separate free movement/trade deal with England. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 24 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: There may be some truth in this argument but we will have to wait and see. Ypu could equally argue that the polls ain't shifted yet because brexit ain't yet happened and folk are still a bit head in sand about the consequences. ......Anyways...the failed Siamese twin.... what a sad sad indictment of Scotland in the union. In the event of a completely disastrous Brexit (as opposed to just a really, really bad Brexit) I hope enough people in Scotland will realise the benefits of Independence. However, there will be others who will accept the “we cannot afford even more change and uncertainty” line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 4 hours ago, Loondave1 said: 5 hours ago, Granny Danger said: It astounds me that otherwise intelligent posters can’t differentiate between a Labour and Tory government; particularly a Corbyn government. It also astounds me that otherwise intelligent posters can’t differentiate between wanting Independence and actually having it. The fact that they see a Corbyn Govt and the current Govt as interchangeable merely proves that a lot of posters on here have a pretty thin veneer of intelligence. Pep just says "champ" a lot to actually prove this theory of mine. The actual cause of the disdain for Corbyn is the threat a Labour Govt under him poses to the success of Indy2 and losing the handy Tory bogeyman at Westminster. Corbyn has faults like any human being but he's light years ahead of most in decency and actually appears to inhabit the same world as the "ordinary" people do. Indy2 is a no hoper as many on here are beginning to realise. At best a mistimed effort and the end of Sturgeon and the long grass for Indy. P&B land is delusional and viewing the mood in the populace through it is a bit ridiculous really and can only lead to the disappointment of finding out the real world isn't always in tune with your own version of it. ^^^^ pish.... the SG will request a referendum...it will be refused.... where we go from their is anyones guess 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: ^^^^ pish.... the SG will request a referendum...it will be refused.... where we go from their is anyones guess This. The UK government know they'd probably lose a referendum right now so will refuse one. The SNP will announce in October they plan to hold one in march, exactly as I said all along, exactly as they said all along. The British government will simply say no. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Margaret Hodge has an opinion piece in the Guardian Quote To give just one example of what the changes do, a Labour party member who calls Zionists “Nazis” could face expulsion, but may find themselves merely warned. This means that in 2018 a party member can call a Jew a Nazi and might not face the severest punishment. And unsurprisingly she is misrepresenting the situation. If you call a jewish person a Nazi and they are not a Nazi you will be kicked out. The Likud faction want a situation where it's against party rules to compare the new "Nation State" law to the Nuremberg Laws or draw comparisons between the Warsaw Ghetto and the ongoing blockade of Gaza. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 8 hours ago, git-intae-thum said: the SG will request a referendum...it will be refused.... where we go from their is anyones guess I think this is correct. If the Scottish government can get support to call for another Independence Referendum and it is refused I would hope there would be outrage in Scotland. Sadly I’m not sure there would be. Sometimes it is forgotten by posters on here that whilst we take a passionate interest in politics we are amongst a small minority. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: I think this is correct. If the Scottish government can get support to call for another Independence Referendum and it is refused I would hope there would be outrage in Scotland. Sadly I’m not sure there would be. Sometimes it is forgotten by posters on here that whilst we take a passionate interest in politics we are amongst a small minority. I reckon that Scotland being a small region for so long has (as it was probably always intended to do) created a lot of apathy. I’ve found this amongst older voters, who seem to be of the mindset that all politicians are the same and there’s no point in independence or anything else, because they’re used to not having any kind of political voice. The UK government can get away with murder, and an embarrassing number of Scots will shrug because it has ever been thus and being powerless is their normal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 13 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: I think this is correct. If the Scottish government can get support to call for another Independence Referendum and it is refused I would hope there would be outrage in Scotland. Sadly I’m not sure there would be. Sometimes it is forgotten by posters on here that whilst we take a passionate interest in politics we are amongst a small minority. There would be outrage. But there would also be an escalation of the Ruth Davidson/BBC "No second referendum" campaign that had the SNP totally rattled during the last GE. The SNP were fortunate that the BBC mislead people to think that the Tories could win in the central belt which meant that a lot of tactical antiSNP votes were wasted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I reckon that Scotland being a small region for so long has (as it was probably always intended to do) created a lot of apathy. I’ve found this amongst older voters, who seem to be of the mindset that all politicians are the same and there’s no point in independence or anything else, because they’re used to not having any kind of political voice. The UK government can get away with murder, and an embarrassing number of Scots will shrug because it has ever been thus and being powerless is their normal.There's probably a lot of truth in this, but things can change - it's making that initial break that's crucial. This time last week I was in Montenegro and during a trip the tour guide told me that the original vote for independence was 56/44, but were it held today she reckoned it would be 90/10.Not a directly comparable situation of course but interesting nevertheless. I voted indy but my wife didn't; Brexit has now landed her in the Yes camp. It's certainly not all over by any means. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 31 minutes ago, Detournement said: There would be outrage. But there would also be an escalation of the Ruth Davidson/BBC "No second referendum" campaign that had the SNP totally rattled during the last GE. The SNP were fortunate that the BBC mislead people to think that the Tories could win in the central belt which meant that a lot of tactical antiSNP votes were wasted. The Scottish Labour leadership actually encouraged people to vote Tory in certain areas. It's not the BBC's fault that the Tories refused to return the favour in other areas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 32 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said: This time last week I was in Montenegro 'Very aggressive people'. Hope you weren't there to start WW III m8. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 13 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: The Scottish Labour leadership actually encouraged people to vote Tory in certain areas. It's not the BBC's fault that the Tories refused to return the favour in other areas. This is nonsense. Dugdale acknowledged that Labour weren't going to win in rural areas. That was just a simple fact. The idea that a sunday morning interview on Sky news that no one watched was the defining factor in voting intention is absurd. Far more people saw Sturgeon state with certainty that the Tories were definitely going to win a majority at the end of the final (I think?) debate. The SNP failed to either fully commit to a second referendum or offer any way to end austerity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 The Dugdale "vote Tory" theory also ignores the fact that there was only one Tory victory - Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock - where there was any substantial Lab>Tory swing. The vast majority of Tory victories were direct SNP>Tory swings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 44 minutes ago, Detournement said: This is nonsense. Dugdale acknowledged that Labour weren't going to win in rural areas. That was just a simple fact. The idea that a sunday morning interview on Sky news that no one watched was the defining factor in voting intention is absurd. Far more people saw Sturgeon state with certainty that the Tories were definitely going to win a majority at the end of the final (I think?) debate. The SNP failed to either fully commit to a second referendum or offer any way to end austerity. Utter revisionist nonsense with a bit of SNP austerity concern trolling thrown in at the end. Dugdale's minter was not only broadcast on Sky, but splashed across the papers the following day. I'm going to quite rightly assume here that like Dugdale and large parts of the branch office you would prefer Tories elected than SNP MP's. Even parts of her own party thought so FFS 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 H_B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 We can argue about the level of publicity the comments had but it's still undeniable that they had no effect on the final results. And the constant harking to them is to cover for the fact that the SNP had no clear strategy and that the swing was SNP>Tory. As I said Sturgeon said that there would be a Tory majority live on one of the TV debates. Is that not a "minter"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 As I said Sturgeon said that there would be a Tory majority live on one of the TV debates. Is that not a "minter"? Id say its reflective of what the likely outcome according to most polls etc was at the time of that election, id argue that its an example of a politician being refreshingly honest and not trying to spin. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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