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pawpar

What is the point of Labour

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Much as I hate the tory party (and christ do I do) you have to give them credit for a couple of things.

1. They have stupid unionists voting for them despite the fact Scotland is going to shit.

2. They think brexit is a good thing for the UK and bring stupid unionists to think the same and

3. They love austerity.

 

Which brings me to my main point what is the difference between the Conservative and Labour Parties when it comes to policy as there is no difference between them when it comes to the above 3 policies..

At least the tories have the balls to admit the above while labour gets all drunk and says I love you, you are my best friend then cuts your balls off.

So I ask you what is the point of Labour. ? (Anybody mentioning socialism and helping the poor considering they abstain when it comes to a vote on austerity will be ignored.)

 

Discuss. 

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Providing a steady income to an avalanche of utterly dreadful local politicians over the decades who, despite being devoid of any opinions or ideas of their own and being completely lacking in terms of reason or powers of argument,  have been able to rise to positions of appalling influence in our society simply by being union yes-men and parroting the party line?

Edited by JTS98

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Labour allows unionists to kid themselves that they have a social conscience.

They are also excellent point-and-laugh material.

 

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Thatcher killed labour when she rid the country of so many industries that labour and trade unions thrived on.

Tony Blair’s government may have been labour in name but it was not labour according to its fundamental principles.

They are now just a bit pointless and a limp opposition party to say the least. Therefore we are stuck with the tories ad Infinitum in brexit Britain.

God I wish we’d voted yes.

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If you genuinely can't see any difference between Corbyn/May, McDonnell/Hammond, Abbot/Javid, Thornberry/Boris or Starmer/Davis then you obviously don't know much about politics.

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3 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

Thatcher killed labour when she rid the country of so many industries that labour and trade unions thrived on.

Tony Blair’s government may have been labour in name but it was not labour according to its fundamental principles.

They are now just a bit pointless and a limp opposition party to say the least. Therefore we are stuck with the tories ad Infinitum in brexit Britain.

God I wish we’d voted yes.

I agree with that last statement and despise the likes of Blair, but anyone following the debate on NHS spending in England will be able to see a significant difference between Labour and Tory policies in the last couple of decades.

Apart from Scottish Independence and Brexit I agree with Corbyn on a number of policy issues.  Much of the establishment is shit scared of him leading a Labour government.

Of course many, many Labour MPs are also frightened at that prospect.

 

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11 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I agree with that last statement and despise the likes of Blair, but anyone following the debate on NHS spending in England will be able to see a significant difference between Labour and Tory policies in the last couple of decades.

 

I think this shouldn't be understated. I get the grievances that the membership were maybe sold short and too often overruled but the idea that Blair or Brown governments were 'red tories' is batshit mental when you look at any of the evidence.

It's become a really dangerous thing in the left when you've got anyone at the right of the party thrown abuse for being 'right wing' which often comes without any intellectual rigour. Fair enough if that's not somebody's personal viewpoint but there seems to be this uncompromising attitude really setting into politics where everyone is just linearly defined on how socialist they are.

I don't blame Corbyn or necessarily dislike him or even blame him for the fragmentation in the party (the PLP's methods to dispose of him were underhand) but I don't really see how a figure of his sort can ever be a positive thing for one of the two major parties. When you see the absolutely batshit group who worked for Livingstone now in really prominent positions and organising the party, you can see real issues.

I'm also not really sure how a Labour leader is not driving all their energy into ensuring that, at all costs, we don't lose intellectual capital and tariffs as a result of Brexit. It's not difficult stuff, the country will be a poorer place post-Brexit (unless it's done in the weakest way possible) and the toriest of red tories in charge of the party would alleviate poverty infinitely more than the most left Labour government imaginable. This should absolutely be an issue where resigning the whip to rebel with the pro EU Conservative MPs should be absolutely justified.

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What we now have is a clear difference in politics - I always felt that under Blair, Brown, and to an extent Milliband, that Labour and the Tories were very similar and much of a muchness.

The anti-austerity, nationalisation of services and equality politics that Corbyn has brought has been good to see. Whether this will be enough to eventually get a majority, time will tell!

What doesn't help Labour currently is the Alastair Campbell type characters who berate Corbyn and think that New Labour policies are the best thing since sliced bread etc.

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Corbyn is a sound enough punter, he'd be a good Prime Minister for England. 

Know a few Labourites from back home though (campaigners, an ex councillor) and it seemed to me that literally all they actually cared about was getting back in power, with zero mention of what they'd actually do with it.

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In England labour provide an alternative, but they have nothing to offer Scotland.  There's just no point in and no need for labour here now.

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1 hour ago, JamieThomas said:

Corbyn is a sound enough punter, he'd be a good Prime Minister for England. 

Know a few Labourites from back home though (campaigners, an ex councillor) and it seemed to me that literally all they actually cared about was getting back in power, with zero mention of what they'd actually do with it.

Whilst it may seem unpalatable, we need full time politicians but once it becomes someone’s career and primary source of income self preservation is an inevitable consequence.

I think that’s the case with all political parties.

If you are going to be elected you sure as hell want to be in the administration/government as opposed to the opposition if that is possible.

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Peppino Impastato said:

In England labour provide an alternative, but they have nothing to offer Scotland.  There's just no point in and no need for labour here now.

Do they though?  If they're not abstaining on key matters, they're supporting the Tory Government on austerity, trident, etc.

And let's not forget, it was the last Labour Government that brought in PFI deals and ATOS assessments for disabled people.

For the money, not the few.

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If you genuinely can't see any difference between Corbyn/May, McDonnell/Hammond, Abbot/Javid, Thornberry/Boris or Starmer/Davis then you obviously don't know much about politics.

Please tell us...

Use the areas of policy below please

 

Defence(trident) Renew

Brexit. Leave

NHS (killed by labour underfunding)

Corporation Tax (big business)

Social Housing buliding. Handful under last labour government

Scottish Indy... No

 

 

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On 7/2/2018 at 03:32, pawpar said:

So I ask you what is the point of Labour. ?

 

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Please tell us...
Use the areas of policy below please
 
Defence(trident) Renew
Brexit. Leave
NHS (killed by labour underfunding)
Corporation Tax (big business)
Social Housing buliding. Handful under last labour government
Scottish Indy... No
 
 


Labour proposed increasing corporation tax at the last election, promised to build one million new homes in the next ten years while reversing the coalition bill on social housing rents and committed 30 billion in the next parliament to the NHS on top of their commitments to improving mental health, sexual health and other often ignored areas of the health service. There’s plenty of criticisms to be made on Labour’s confused Brexit policy and their capitulations on immigration and defence but there’s clear distance between them and the Conservatives in a number of areas.

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Labour proposed increasing corporation tax at the last election, promised to build one million new homes in the next ten years while reversing the coalition bill on social housing rents and committed 30 billion in the next parliament to the NHS on top of their commitments to improving mental health, sexual health and other often ignored areas of the health service. There’s plenty of criticisms to be made on Labour’s confused Brexit policy and their capitulations on immigration and defence but there’s clear distance between them and the Conservatives in a number of areas.

Promises promises, did f**k all of this during last tenure
Red Torries

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Promises promises, did f**k all of this during last tenure
Red Torries


Loads of the major figures of the last Labour governments or their ideological successors have spent the past three years shitting themselves, plotting coups and generally undermining the current leadership.

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3 hours ago, Fide said:

Do they though?  If they're not abstaining on key matters, they're supporting the Tory Government on austerity, trident, etc.

And let's not forget, it was the last Labour Government that brought in PFI deals and ATOS assessments for disabled people.

For the money, not the few.

It was actually the Tories before that. Skye bridge and various motorways were built with PFI. They also started it for Schools as well (Balfron in Michael Forsyth's  constituency). Labour opposed them at the time but carried on with Balfron High School and others once they got in.

Doesn't really change the argument but pedantic is my favourite word..

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56 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:


Promises promises, did f**k all of this during last tenure
Red Torries

Political parties change.  The SNP is a socially progressive party but that is not a claim that could have been made 30 or 40 years ago.

 

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Political parties change.  The SNP is a socially progressive party but that is not a claim that could have been made 30 or 40 years ago.
 
Excuse me if I don't trust them..

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