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Jock Tamson

East Region Superleague

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16 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Fair to who though? It's not fair to the 13 EoS clubs who this season agreed to a transition season to accomodate the new members.  To ask some (most?) of them to go through a second transition season isn't fair on them really.

I do think an outline of what will happen in different scenario's should be communicated to all existing members by the end of the year.  Hopefully not regional.

It's the existing President of the League that's been coming out with the quotes. In various interviews, they've obviously discussed it in principle. Every club must realise that beyond the EoS Premier concept everything's up in the air as it's dependent on the number of applicants they actually get.

The members of the EoS this year both old and new are likely to be focused on getting licenced as well. That can see a chunk of their playing budget put into their infrastructure instead. Why add the unnecessary concern of a 8th Tier.

 image.png.c8b178ff3a9541ca0201832bb62d4f2b.png

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52 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

It's the existing President of the League that's been coming out with the quotes. In various interviews, they've obviously discussed it in principle. Every club must realise that beyond the EoS Premier concept everything's up in the air as it's dependent on the number of applicants they actually get.

The members of the EoS this year both old and new are likely to be focused on getting licenced as well. That can see a chunk of their playing budget put into their infrastructure instead. Why add the unnecessary concern of a 8th Tier.

 image.png.c8b178ff3a9541ca0201832bb62d4f2b.png

As you say, everything up in the air and nothing discussed with the clubs yet, regional leagues at tier 7 is only one option. 

As with JG's final sentence in the quote above, the new clubs couldn't expect concessions to be made to accomodate them. The EoS hold all the cards. Not sure what relevance Licencing would have to the possibility of tier 7 or tier 8 for clubs finishing outwith the top 5 and I'm not so sure clubs are altering player budgets significantly given some of the signings being made.

 

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On 12/06/2018 at 20:15, Burnie_man said:

They know they hold the whip hand and it's a case of join and be made welcome, or not.

 

9 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

The EoS hold all the cards.

Seems a very TJ-esque view of things and had been rather against the approach of the existing EoS clubs. Maybe letting all these Junior clubs in was a bad idea.

12 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

As you say, everything up in the air and nothing discussed with the clubs yet, regional leagues at tier 7 is only one option.

It's obviously been discussed at a certain level in order for the President and other sources to be putting out that message that there will likely be regionalised tiers at Tier 7 and no mention of Tier 8 as of yet. Clubs are making their plans for the season ahead and are looking for additional promotion opportunities and getting licenced. Not adding additional fears of relegation or worrying about hypothetical concerns over how West Lothian is going to be split depending on whether or not x,y&z join or don't join.

Regionalisation of Tier 7 rather than parallel seeded leagues for 2019/20 would also allow for renewed local games that may have been missed in 2018/19. With the added benefit that when a EoS First is ever created it will have the representation of the best of whatever the 2/3 leagues regions are.

As for the no concessions I don't read the quote like that. While there's no way a new applicant would get into the proposed EoS Premier, it reads like they'd be willing to adjust the leagues below to suit as many new applicants as they can get.

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13 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

 

Seems a very TJ-esque view of things and had been rather against the approach of the existing EoS clubs. Maybe letting all these Junior clubs in was a bad idea.

It's obviously been discussed at a certain level in order for the President and other sources to be putting out that message that there will likely be regionalised tiers at Tier 7 and no mention of Tier 8 as of yet. Clubs are making their plans for the season ahead and are looking for additional promotion opportunities and getting licenced. Not adding additional fears of relegation or worrying about hypothetical concerns over how West Lothian is going to be split depending on whether or not x,y&z join or don't join.

Regionalisation of Tier 7 rather than parallel seeded leagues for 2019/20 would also allow for renewed local games that may have been missed in 2018/19. With the added benefit that when a EoS First is ever created it will have the representation of the best of whatever the 2/3 leagues regions are.

As for the no concessions I don't read the quote like that. While there's no way a new applicant would get into the proposed EoS Premier, it reads like they'd be willing to adjust the leagues below to suit as many new applicants as they can get.

TJ-esque view of things? behave it's just fact, any new clubs joining the EoS have "had their chance" of coming in at a higher level as quote by JG. There has to come a time when respecting those original 13 members is the priority as many of them wont make the top 5 and are therefore faced with a second season of "transition" to accomodate an anticipated second wave of Junior clubs. Now it may well be that this is what we end up with and that everyone is happy with a second season of transition below the top 16, but it's not been discussed with the clubs.

As for Regionalisation at tier 7, there wasn't a demand for it at tier 6 for next season, everyone was happy with seeded Conferences, I doubt there will be a demand for it at tier 7 either. As pointed out it's not a large area to travel, in the seeded Conferences next season many new members have cut their overall travel and let's remember the majority of new members come from the Super and Premier Leagues which also included Tayside clubs, travelling really isn't a showstopper for them.  Yes, some local derbies are always welcome but travelling to Perth or the Borders a couple of times a season isn't a hardship.

 

Edited by Burnie_man

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Am I missing something? Are we playing football in Russia or China? Then we could be worrying about distances to travel. Bathgate choosing to play in the bottom division because they're unwilling to travel 60 miles to play a football game?!?

Regionalisation should only be in the bottom division of the pyramid. One of the reasons I am happy to leave the juniors is this obsession with avoiding travelling reasonable distances. I'm looking forward to trips to the Borders, not stressing about them.

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1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

TJ-esque view of things? behave it's just fact, any new clubs joining the EoS have "had their chance" of coming in at a higher level as quote by JG. There has to come a time when respecting those original 13 members is the priority as many of them wont make the top 5 and are therefore faced with a second season of "transition" to accomodate an anticipated second wave of Junior clubs. Now it may well be that this is what we end up with and that everyone is happy with a second season of transition below the top 16, but it's not been discussed with the clubs.

As for Regionalisation at tier 7, there wasn't a demand for it at tier 6 for next season, everyone was happy with seeded Conferences, I doubt there will be a demand for it at tier 7 either. As pointed out it's not a large area to travel, in the seeded Conferences next season many new members have cut their overall travel and let's remember the majority of new members come from the Super and Premier Leagues which also included Tayside clubs, travelling really isn't a showstopper for them.  Yes, some local derbies are always welcome but travelling to Perth or the Borders a couple of times a season isn't a hardship.

Regionalisation is the way to guarantee that the majority the original 13  clubs end up in the same league. They'd likely end up in a league largely represented with their traditional membership. Burntisland would been in amongst Fife teams so would probably be in an even better situation. Stirling Uni reserves would be the only real outlier.

It also means whenever a EoS First is created they'd have be almost assured representation. As the top 5-8 in their regional league would be used to make up the new look EoS First.

image.png.669b8165ba4f48ccdc478bd0a3fe904e.png

Taking a 3 parallel Conference structure with no interleague games in 2018/19 and creating 3 Tiered leagues for 2019/20 is a nonsense.

 

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35 minutes ago, patriot1 said:

Am I missing something? Are we playing football in Russia or China? Then we could be worrying about distances to travel. Bathgate choosing to play in the bottom division because they're unwilling to travel 60 miles to play a football game?!?

Regionalisation should only be in the bottom division of the pyramid. One of the reasons I am happy to leave the juniors is this obsession with avoiding travelling reasonable distances. I'm looking forward to trips to the Borders, not stressing about them.

At the moment regionalisation is for the bottom division of the pyramid. There is no Tier 7 and to create one based on the membership they have, without having a crystal ball to know how the next 12 months will pan out, the President of the EoS and those speaking to the media have only come out with one suggestion EoS Premier with regional leagues below.

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Regionalisation is the way to guarantee that the majority the original 13  clubs end up in the same league. They'd likely end up in a league largely represented with their traditional membership. Burntisland would been in amongst Fife teams so would probably be in an even better situation. Stirling Uni reserves would be the only real outlier.
It also means whenever a EoS First is created they'd have be almost assured representation. As the top 5-8 in their regional league would be used to make up the new look EoS First.
image.png.669b8165ba4f48ccdc478bd0a3fe904e.png
Taking a 3 parallel Conference structure with no interleague games in 2018/19 and creating 3 Tiered leagues for 2019/20 is a nonsense.
 
Why is it a nonsense? Why do the original 13 clubs need to be in the same league? As Patriot pointed out some people are obsessed with not travelling the length of their own shadow. We're not talking hundreds of miles here.

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20 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:
7 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:
Regionalisation is the way to guarantee that the majority the original 13  clubs end up in the same league. They'd likely end up in a league largely represented with their traditional membership. Burntisland would been in amongst Fife teams so would probably be in an even better situation. Stirling Uni reserves would be the only real outlier.
It also means whenever a EoS First is created they'd have be almost assured representation. As the top 5-8 in their regional league would be used to make up the new look EoS First.
image.png.669b8165ba4f48ccdc478bd0a3fe904e.png
Taking a 3 parallel Conference structure with no interleague games in 2018/19 and creating 3 Tiered leagues for 2019/20 is a nonsense.
 

Why is it a nonsense? Why do the original 13 clubs need to be in the same league? As Patriot pointed out some people are obsessed with not travelling the length of their own shadow. We're not talking hundreds of miles here.

At what point would the 13 clubs be in the same league? The likes of Lthv are favoured to be in the EoS Premier, Burntisland & Stirling Reserves are likely to be in a different regional league if they don't make the Premier.

And it's a nonsense because they haven't decided on it in advance. Because the margin between the 3x different 10th placed are so fine that forcing them into different tiers wouldn't be fair, or hastily arranging end of season round robin playoffs is farcical.

Or would that be the 11th placed teams? Or two of the 11th placed teams? Or two of the 10th placed teams? Or...?

When will we know May next year.

Regional or parallel leagues at tier 7 in 2019-20 is the easiest way to attract additional members & rebalance those not making the EoS Premier.

Go from there. You don't need to cram everything in to one season. Especially with so many factors still unknown & won't likely to be resolved definitively even 9 months from now.

Edited by FairWeatherFan

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  At what point would the 13 clubs be in the same league? The likes of Lthv are favoured to be in the EoS Premier, Burntisland & Stirling Reserves are likely to be in a different regional league if they don't make the Premier. And it's a nonsense because they haven't decided on it in advance. Because the margin between the 3x different 10th placed are so fine that forcing them into different tiers wouldn't be fair, or hastily arranging end of season round robin playoffs is farcical. Or would that be the 11th placed teams? Or two of the 11th placed teams? Or two of the 10th placed teams? Or...?

When will we know May next year.

Regional or parallel leagues at tier 7 in 2019-20 is the easiest way to attract additional members & rebalance those not making the EoS Premier.

Go from there. You don't need to cram everything in to one season. Especially with so many factors still unknown & won't likely to be resolved definitively even 9 months from now.

 

 

 

According to you regionalisation guarantees the original members are in the same league, as if it is the aim of those clubs for that to happen.  

Forming a second 16 team league for 2019/20 from next season's league positions is very straightforward and should be one of the options on the table.

 

As I said earlier, clubs should have a better idea of what they are playing for next season otherwise they are going into the unknown.

 

Set out the scenarios now based on different outcomes. No new members and the league looks like this. Up to 10 new members and it will work like this, over 10 new members etc etc.

 

Its not rocket science. Anyway this isn't the place or the thread for this discussion, there's one for this purpose on the EoS forum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

According to you regionalisation guarantees the original members are in the same league, as if it is the aim of those in a for that to happen.

 

Forming a second 16 team league for 2019/20 from next season's league positions is very straightforward and should be one of the options on the table.

 

As I said earlier, clubs hould have a better idea of what they are playing for next season otherwise they are going into the unknown.

 

Set out the scenarios now based on different outcomes. No new members and the league looks like this. Up to 10 new members and it will work like this, over 10 new members etc etc.

 

Its not rocket science. Anyway this isn't the place or the thread for this discussion, there's one for this purpose on the EoS forum.

 

 

 

"guarantees the majority" and goes on to specifically mention burntisland would likely be in a league with fife teams and Stirling Reserves being the only outlier. 

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10 hours ago, patriot1 said:

I'm looking forward to trips to the Borders, not stressing about them.

Only one Borders trip confirmed for St Andrews this season - away to Peebles in the qualifying league!

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48 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Only one Borders trip confirmed for St Andrews this season - away to Peebles in the qualifying league!

True. If our cup form is the same as last season's we won't have to worry about any further trips.

But had we found ourselves in the same conference as three borders teams I would have welcomed the adventures to new grounds, not whinged about the cost of buses.

If the Super League set up remains for at least a further season and Bathgate or Pumpherston win the South this year will they decline promotion?

 

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12 hours ago, patriot1 said:

Am I missing something? Are we playing football in Russia or China? Then we could be worrying about distances to travel. Bathgate choosing to play in the bottom division because they're unwilling to travel 60 miles to play a football game?!?

Regionalisation shouldaonly be in the bottom division of the pyramid. One of the reasons I am happy to leave the juniors is this obsession with avoiding travelling reasonable distances. I'm looking forward to trips to the Borders, not stressing about them.

bathgate have all the facilities and a great park - but no ambition at all dropping down to the bottom league - they have blew it big time lol

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Reasonable to say that you're like King Canute if you're maintaining an argument about a movement to the pyramid but the current arrangement is a farce, current set up doesn't offer anything suitable for either the Tayside or Perthshire clubs and doesn't enable them into the senior level with a regional level of football appropriate to them.

 

Edited by RobM

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14 hours ago, RobM said:

Reasonable to say that you're like King Canute if you're maintaining an argument about a movement to the pyramid but the current arrangement is a farce, current set up doesn't offer anything suitable for either the Tayside or Perthshire clubs and doesn't enable them into the senior level with a regional level of football appropriate to them.

 

Same in the West and it's up to the Pyramid Working Group to come up with viable solutions. To me the obvious one (as the SJFA is on borrowed time) is for new senior leagues to be created below both LL and HL which would largely be rebranding of the present West and North junior Super leagues. Tayside to merge in with North with a regional division feeding the top NoS league in turn feeding HFL.

The alternative is to shift the LL boundary to Montrose to allow the Tayside teams access to the EoS - they, as you suggest, cannot join because a feeder to the LL has to be within its catchment, otherwise take the example of say Lochee Utd winning EoS - but are only eligible for HFL promotion...? Does not compute.

Edited by cmontheloknow

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19 hours ago, brycey said:

bathgate have all the facilities and a great park - but no ambition at all dropping down to the bottom league - they have blew it big time lol

They have a good pitch, but what are all the facilities you are talking about?

Edited by shuggie123

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Would appreciate some info regarding Broughty Athletic's pre season friendlies, departures, signings, night oots, day oots, something. . Anything. . Please!

They've went into hiding it seems.

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The eosfl Committee does not make the decisions regarding how things are set up. The association members (13 original clubs) will propose and vote on the structure they wish for and the committee will carry their wishes out. 

Their approach couldn't be more transparent, you have to play for a season to be an association member club, only association member clubs get to propose and vote on league matters, the Committee are there to carry out the wishes of the association member clubs. That is what he means by nothing is decided yet.... Not that the committee will decide. 

As for travel distances and regionalisation..... Regionalisation, for me, should be confined to the lower leagues in any pyramid to help balance running costs against standard. However if you ask most of the clubs who have transitioned this year, their travel costs and time will have reduced. 

As for clubs having had their opportunity, who can argue with that? There was a deadline, then this was extended, they would probably have considered late applications aswell.... For a club to then wait a year, see what the lay of the land is and expect entry to the Premier league would be ridiculous. There has been plenty of time to apply in recent months. 

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