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Various club name issues


mcruic
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Hi Junior experts:

A few questions about club names that have always bugged me - can anyone clarify?

IRVINE MEADOW
With the team variously mentioned as "Irvine Meadow", "Irvine Meadow XI" and "Irvine Meadow X1" on their official website and Twitter pages, what exactly is the name of the club?  What is the function of the "XI" or "X1" given that all football teams have 11 players, and that "XI" is usually used to designate a scratch team put together for a special event?

EAST CRAIGIE / DOWNFIELD
As far as I'm aware, East Craigie and Downfield are the full names of the teams, but I regularly see Dundee Downfield and Dundee East Craigie, even in reports in the Tayside region.

EAST END
On Wikipedia, they are "Aberdeen East End", but is Aberdeen part of the official name of the club?  The club crest says simply "East End".

NEWMAINS UNITED
Newmains United or Newmains United Community?  Is "Community Football Club" considered an unnecessary suffix (like FC, which could be applied to all football clubs), or is Community considered a part of the club name?  Others (Bathgate Thistle Community Football Club, for example) seem to omit the "Community" part.

KIRKCALDY YM
The club crest says YMCA, but I usually see the name written as YM (in league tables, match reports, etc.)

KIRRIEMUIR THISTLE
The club crest says Kirrie Thistle.  Kirrie is what locals call Kirriemuir (similar to Blair for Blairgowrie) - but "Blair Juniors" (locally) are officially called Blairgowrie.  Are Kirrie Thistle officially Kirriemuir Thistle, or Kirrie Thistle?

THORNTON HIBS
Is Hibs the official moniker, or is it Thornton Hibernian? 

JUNIORS SUFFIX
Also, some clubs seem to always have the word "juniors" in the name of the club (Greenock, Wishaw, Beith, Lesmahagow, Muirkirk, Neilston, Port Glasgow, Maybole, Darvel, Cumnock, Newburgh, Pumpherston, Stoneyburn, Whitburn, Dyce, etc.) - these all seem to be lacking a name otherwise (i.e. it's just the name of the town).  Is this "Juniors" officially part of the club name? (again all junior football clubs could take the suffix JFC).  Or does it distinguish between teams in a town where the local junior and amateur teams would otherwise have the same name (Beith Juniors, Beith Amateurs?).  Note, however, Coupar Angus are referred to simply as Coupar Angus, despite an amateur team of the same name existing in the same town. 

Edited by mcruic
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You're probably going to need people from the clubs themselves 'in the know' I'd have thought. The SJFA lists the club names but that does not necessarily mean anything - you could take it further to include the departing Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic or the presently remaining Royal Albert Athletic as others with rarely used suffixes btw.

On the first one, it's Irvine Meadow XI. The origin of the XI has been gone into enough but I can't recall the exact ins and outs other than it dates back to a time of various other teams of different grades in the town (apart from the Vics).  Pretty sure it's Thornton Hibs as opposed to Thornton Hibernian on the last.

On suffixes again, Camelon are retaining Juniors as they go into the EoS.

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Names evolve through time as the main activity of the club changes.  Queens Park are undoubtably the oldest club which played ORGANISED football in Scotland, but they were simply following on from the example in England where a set of rules for the game had been drawn up. Queens Park's main activity was cricket and they wanted to play another game during the winter months.

They needed opposition of course and contacted the Vale of Leven sporting club whose main activity was shinty, but also partcipated in cricket, quoiting and rowing. The rest is history as they say, and the game quickly caught on but the names of the clubs did not immediately change to reflect what soon became the main activity of the club.

Many clubs which sprang up played a range of sports and some had the suffix "Football and Athletic Club". The "athletic" part was dropped as football became the main activity of most of them. It was perhaps natural that only the town name or other suffix reflecting the cultural leanings of the club, e.g. Celtic, Harp, Hibernian, was retained.

New clubs still being formed today seem not to have any suffix in many instances.  I never hear Rossvale, Gartcairn or many of the new Lowland league clubs being referred to with any other added part to their name. Maybe we should just refer to them by what most of their fans call them, "the Gers", the "Tic" or "Hibees", the "Peasy" and so on.

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8 hours ago, mcruic said:

JUNIORS SUFFIX

 

Also, some clubs seem to always have the word "juniors" in the name of the club (Greenock, Wishaw, Beith, Lesmahagow, Muirkirk, Neilston, Port Glasgow,  Maybole, Darvel, Cumnock, Newburgh, Pumpherston, Stoneyburn, Whitburn, Dyce, etc.) - these all seem to be lacking a name otherwise (i.e. it's just the name of the town).  Is this "Juniors" officially part of the club name? (again all junior football clubs could take the suffix JFC).  Or does it distinguish between teams in a town where the local junior and amateur teams would otherwise have the same name (Beith Juniors, Beith Amateurs?).  Note, however, Coupar Angus are referred to simply as Coupar Angus, despite an amateur team of the same name existing in the same town. 

We are officially Neilston Juniors FC and that is the name that appears in our constitution.  Funnily enough in our first incarnation in 1898 , there was already Neilston FC who were a senior side and members of the SFA until 1902.  So the newly formed junior side back in 1898 called themselves Neilston Victoria FC rather than Neilston Juniors FC which you might've expected to differentiate between the senior and junior side.  The Vics went into abeyance in 1939 and then as war was ending, the club was reformed as Neilston Juniors FC in 1945.

Edited by Brig O'Lea
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1 hour ago, garrellburn said:

Names evolve through time as the main activity of the club changes.  Queens Park are undoubtably the oldest club which played ORGANISED football in Scotland, but they were simply following on from the example in England where a set of rules for the game had been drawn up. Queens Park's main activity was cricket and they wanted to play another game during the winter months.

They are actually called "Queen's Park".

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Irvine Meadow XI were originally the second team playing at the ground, Irvine Celtic owned and played at Meadow Park. So there was a Meadow Park befoe there was an Irvine Meadow XI

It was common for second teams renting the ground to have a suffix at the end of the name like XI or XV as it wasn't guaranteed they played the same code as the owners of the ground, and it indicated thet were tenants to another club.

So they were Irvine Meadow XI, the Meadow coming from the name of Irvine Celtic ground where they played and the XI from the fact they played Association football.

When Irvine Celtic folded the ground was bought but the name stuck even though they were no longer just tenants.

Edited by MEADOWXI
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1 hour ago, garrellburn said:

 

New clubs still being formed today seem not to have any suffix in many instances.  I never hear Rossvale, Gartcairn or many of the new Lowland league clubs being referred to with any other added part to their name. Maybe we should just refer to them by what most of their fans call them, "the Gers", the "Tic" or "Hibees", the "Peasy" and so on.

Gartcairn call themselves Gartcairn Juniors.

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IRVINE MEADOW XI

As Cmontheloknow has posted the story has been told before but it is always worth telling again! So to add to Meadow XI's post here it is!

The name Irvine Meadow XI dates back to a naming convention of the 1890’s.  Junior club Irvine Celtic played at Meadow Park. A juvenile club had been formed in the town and they were looking for a better ground.  With many of the team living near Meadow Park they approached Irvine Celtic who were agreeable to the proposal. Although the new affiliation between the clubs was loose and the two clubs were for all intents and purposes separate clubs, the Juvenile club was named using the convention of the day. This convention was that the club playing at a lower grade was named as follows:

[Host club] [Ground] XI i.e. Irvine Celtic Meadow XI.

Other clubs using this convention were Rangers Ibrox XI, Hibernian Easter XI, Queen’s Park Hampden XI, Clyde Barrowfield XI, Third Lanark Cathkin XI and Kilmarnock Rugby XI.

The Juvenile club played its first match in September 1895. When Irvine Celtic folded in December 1895 the Juvenile side were allowed by the landlord to play on at Meadow Park. With their host club’s demise the club dropped the “Celtic” from its name. It probably should have dropped the “XI” at the same time but did not. After a good first season they became the tenant at Meadow Park. The new Irvine Meadow XI quickly moved from Juvenile for Junior football.

EAST CRAIGIE / DOWNFIELD

In the SJFA Handbook the clubs are given as Downfield and Dundee East Craigie but as far as I am aware it should be Downfield and East Craigie.

EAST END

 The SJFA Handbook says “Aberdeen East End”. However, the club name is “East End”. I wonder if “Aberdeen” was unofficially added and adopted by the SJFA in the past to distinguish it from other clubs with the same name. e,g, Forfar East End, and has remained even though it is the only “East End” today?

NEWMAINS UNITED

The SJFA Handbook says “Newmains United Community FC”. The club badge says “Newmains United CFC”. I suppose the main thing to establish is how clubs are registered for football purposes. Some clubs are registered as companies or charities and will have a longer registered name than they use for football purposes .e.g. Ardrossan Winton Rovers Football Club Limited and Bathgate Thistle Community Football Club, etc.  From what I can see in Newmains case “Community” is not an integral part of the club’s football name but simply used in the suffix “CFC”. That’s just a guess though.

KIRKCALDY YM

The SJFA Handbook says “Kirkcaldy YMCA”.

KIRRIEMUIR THISTLE

The SJFA Handbook says “Kirriemuir Thistle”.  That one has always confused me. Which one is correct?

THORNTON HIBS

The SJFA Handbook says “Thornton Hibs” and I can remember being told that it is definitely Hibs and  is not Hibernian.

JUNIOR SUFFIX

Some clubs are described as Junior Football Club in their full name and the JFC is dropped in reporting.  This is the equivalent of say Sunderland who use the suffix Association Football Club (AFC) but are known simply as Sunderland. However, others use Juniors (i.e. plural) as an integral part of their club name, e.g. Camelon Juniors, Cumnock Juniors, Darvel Juniors. Many clubs probably used the Juniors suffix in the early days to differentiate it from a Senior club from the same town, e.g. Beith, and the name just stuck. Other clubs, e.g. Dyce who are fairly recent club formed from an amalagamation, have made a deliberate decision to have “Juniors” as part of the club name.

NEILSTON JUNIORS

The SJFA Handbook says “Neilston Juniors”.

VICTORIAS & ALBERTS

Some time ago I looked at clubs with the suffix Victoria or Albert. From what I found very few were named directly in honour of the Queen or the Prince Consort but adopted the name indirectly through an association with a local park or bar or in one case a ship named after them. Lochgelly Albert is the exception with the club’s suffix being the name of the French town where many local men died in the First World War.

Edited by bluedragon
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The outside wall of our stadium has the sign "Rutherglen Glencairn Junior Football Club", however I don't think "Junior" is officially part of the club's name.

It's certainly not on any of our letterhead paperwork or our club badge.

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