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WoSFL Pyramid Deadline - SJFA or Club led?

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2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Canvassing - I've heard this a number of times on here and elsewhere from those Junior types who think the EoSFL actively went out and encouraged clubs to move. They didn't, so let's put that one to rest once and for all, paranoid minds and all that.  There has been lively debate with the pros and cons of joining listed and debated. That isn't canvassing, it's communication.

Anti-Junior - What many are saying is that in their opinion Junior clubs are better served by moving into the Senior Pyramid. For those that don't want to, they remain Junior.  If that is classed as anti-Junior then that's your problem I suppose.

AS above I have not said the EOSFL canvassed, I would say you and others did more canvassing than anybody....and constantly encouraging teams to leave and join EOSFL is canvassing in any book.

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1 minute ago, A.M said:

AS above I have not said the EOSFL canvassed, I would say you and others did more canvassing than anybody....and constantly encouraging teams to leave and join EOSFL is canvassing in any book.

It's called debating the merits of remaining Junior or joining the Pyramid and putting your point across.  In your book that means everyone who is pro-Pyramid is canvassing, I assume therefore everyone who is pro remaining Junior is also canvassing?  :blink:  

It's an Internet Forum, sometimes people lose sight of that.

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1 hour ago, Pyramidic said:

So what AGM "Notices of Motion" WERE presented to the WRSJFA April meeting?

If there were any I don't recall it having been mentioned on here, and I know there are some regular posters who are delegates or at least have access to WRSJFA minutes.

And clubs needed to have been discussing possible amendments to any Notices of Motion way back at the start of May!

Or, if proposals for changes to Cup competitions, pyramid links etc are being proposed by the Management Committee rather than member clubs, what's the procedure for notification of these, and what opportunity for proposing amendments and for mandating delegates which way to vote?

 

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19 minutes ago, A.M said:

Come on Marten, you sound like a clever guy, there are quite a few on here who have canvassed daily...Burnieman makes no apologies for his daily posts, among others . KEFC posted numerous posts showing the benefits of joining the EOSFL, mostly money orientated btw.

....and just as I write I get a notification from said Burnieman 

I wouldn't call a discussion about whether or not it's good to move to the EoSFL on an internet form "canvassing" tbh. I highly doubt any clubs would base important decisions like what league they want to play in on the opinions that people like Burnieman, KEFC or anyone else voice on a football forum. If any clubs would be led by that, that would be quite worrying imo!

Edited by Marten

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7 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

It's called debating the merits of remaining Junior or joining the Pyramid and putting your point across.  In your book that means everyone who is pro-Pyramid is canvassing, I assume therefore everyone who is pro remaining Junior is also canvassing?  :blink:  

It's an Internet Forum, sometimes people lose sight of that.

In my opinion not all pro pyramid guys have canvassed but certainly yourself and a few others I would say have canvassed, giving your opinion is one thing but posting every day and debating with every poster who appears to favour the juniors is a different kettle of fish.

There are plenty of people who are still pro junior but they are afraid to post in case they get a dose of the measles.:shutup 

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8 minutes ago, Marten said:

 

I wouldn't call a discussion about whether or not it's good to move to the EoSFL on an internet form "canvassing" tbh. I highly doubt any clubs would base important decisions like what league they want to play in on the opinion that people like Burnieman, KEFS or anyone else voice on a football forum. If any clubs would be led by that, that would be quite worrying imo!

This.   Clubs don’t decide such important matters based on what is posted on Pie and Bovril  :lol:

Forum debates which debunk myths, provide information, answer questions and generally deal in known facts isn’t “canvassing”.  There’s plenty of people who bemoan the lack of information that flows out of Leagues and Associations, thankfully this Forum provides a means for people to disseminate information and discuss it.

Edited by Burnie_man

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1 minute ago, A.M said:

In my opinion not all pro pyramid guys have canvassed but certainly yourself and a few others I would say have canvassed, giving your opinion is one thing but posting every day and debating with every poster who appears to favour the juniors is a different kettle of fish.

There are plenty of people who are still pro junior but they are afraid to post in case they get a dose of the measles.:shutup 

So now posting regularly  = canvassing? :lol:

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6 minutes ago, Marten said:

 

I wouldn't call a discussion about whether or not it's good to move to the EoSFL on an internet form "canvassing" tbh. I highly doubt any clubs would base important decisions like what league they want to play in on the opinion that people like Burnieman, KEFS or anyone else voice on a football forum. If any clubs would be led by that, that would be quite worrying imo!

Marten, when politicians take to the streets to tell us the benefits of their side of the debate its called canvassing , I would say that some posters on here have told us the benefits of the pyramid on more than one occasion, that changes it from giving an opinion to canvassing I believe.

However I didnt come on here to canvass.

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1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

So now posting regularly  = canvassing? :lol:

You see , this is your style , trying to get smart with anybody who has an opinion different to yours with your wee smiley faces etc.

Do you honestly believe that your hundreds of posts championing the benefits of the pyramid isnt canvassing ?

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You see , this is your style , trying to get smart with anybody who has an opinion different to yours with your wee smiley faces etc.
Do you honestly believe that your hundreds of posts championing the benefits of the pyramid isnt canvassing ?
Of course it's not canvassing and it's laughably absurd to suggest otherwise, it's an internet forum for debate!!!

Honestly, this place sometimes

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1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

Of course it's not canvassing and it's laughably absurd to suggest otherwise, it's an internet forum for debate!!!

Honestly, this place sometimes emoji15.png
 

This place  ?, stay cool its an internet forum 

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6 minutes ago, A.M said:

Marten, when politicians take to the streets to tell us the benefits of their side of the debate its called canvassing , I would say that some posters on here have told us the benefits of the pyramid on more than one occasion, that changes it from giving an opinion to canvassing I believe.

However I didnt come on here to canvass.

If a politician from for example the SNP or Tories approaches me on the street or knock on my door to tell me why I should/shouldn't support independence or just who to vote for, it's canvassing. If a random voter of either party comes with an argument on an internet forum about the same subject, it's not canvassing imo. 

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1 minute ago, Marten said:

If a politician from for example the SNP or Tories approaches me on the street or knock on my door to tell me why I should/shouldn't support independence or just who to vote for, it's canvassing. If a random voter of either party comes with an argument on an internet forum about the same subject, it's not canvassing imo. 

and you are entitled to that opinion.

Would calling other clubs telling them of the benefits be canvassing ?

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3 minutes ago, Marten said:

If a politician from for example the SNP or Tories approaches me on the street or knock on my door to tell me why I should/shouldn't support independence or just who to vote for, it's canvassing. If a random voter of either party comes with an argument on an internet forum about the same subject, it's not canvassing imo. 

BTW if any of those two chapped my door I wouldnt open it.:whistle

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10 minutes ago, A.M said:

and you are entitled to that opinion.

Would calling other clubs telling them of the benefits be canvassing ?

I see "canvassing" as someone with an interest one way or the other actively trying to approach me to change/keep my opinion or act in a certain way. That's why I mentioned the political example above. If someone knocks on your door clearly identifiable as representing a certain party, it's pretty obviously that person wants me to vote in a certain way. On the other hand, if a random guy in the pub tells me ...(insert a certain politician/party)... is great/full of shite, I would not see it as canvassing.

If I apply that to the EOS discussion, I'd say that if either the EOS, SFA, SJFA,  ERJFA or certain clubs actively try to get other clubs to move it's canvassing. A random interested guy approaching a club with their opinion would not be canvassing.

Edited by Marten

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28 minutes ago, A.M said:

In my opinion not all pro pyramid guys have canvassed but certainly yourself and a few others I would say have canvassed, giving your opinion is one thing but posting every day and debating with every poster who appears to favour the juniors is a different kettle of fish.

There are plenty of people who are still pro junior but they are afraid to post in case they get a dose of the measles.:shutup 

Three so far lol :thumsup2

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56 minutes ago, A.M said:

I dont mean the guys who criticise how its run, I am talking about the guys who come on and try and degrade the juniors and in particular Ayrshire just for the sake of it.

Who else ? Not sure what you mean by that ?

By saying who else you agree that some canvassing has been done ?

To be fair there have been several Auchinleck fans on here who have probably caused more damage to the Junior "grade" with their bizarre posts  than any of what you think is canvassing but which clearly isn't.

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15 minutes ago, drs said:

To be fair there have been several Auchinleck fans on here who have probably caused more damage to the Junior "grade" with their bizarre posts  than any of what you think is canvassing but which clearly isn't.

You should save that red ink for the bingo 8)

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The discussion regarding the Juniors joining a Pyramid in Scotland is not new. In fact it goes back at least 15 years to the time of the old Yahoo group. In those days there were folk that suggested the Juniors should actually be allowed to enter the senior Scottish Cup.  a substantial majority agreed in the polls they had and the national newspapers picked up on it. From there we now have junior teams in the Scottish Cup and that in itself enriches the competition.  Most posters in those far off days were in favour of a re-organisation of Non League football in Scotland.  In my humble opinion a lot of this problem lies with the clubs themselves. They have shown themselves to be constantly out of step with their followers on these issue's and allowed the SJFA to survive a lot longer than they should have done.  I loved Junior football in its heyday and have many great memories of it. However the standards have consistently fallen over the years and many of the teams are little ore than public park outfits.  If the criticism is about 'canvassing' or 'debating' then how else are people ever going to encourage changes for the better. We live in a democracy and we should value people's opinion's even those who support the SJFA at present and what it has to offer. From my viewpoint this is very little.

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Anyone who thinks there wasn't a certain amount of "canvassing" or "encouragement" of the East Junior teams to join the EOSL are naive.

No one's going to come out and admit it of course.

EOSL played a blinder on this one.

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