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Pyramidic

WoSFL Pyramid Deadline - SJFA or Club led?

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Does anyone know the deadline that is being set for the formation of the West Region Tier 6 Pyramid?
 

Q1. Have the clubs given the the SJFA a clear official mandate (instructions of desired outcome) regarding the SJFA as whole becoming part of the Pyramid? And the West Region in particular?
Response: A clear mandate has not been provided or explicit requirements for the West Region.

Q2. Is the SJFA Management properly committed to the Pyramid or will we just see further evasive delays?
Response: We will see over the coming months whether SJFA will achieve a successful outcome from their dialogue with the SFA/PWG to join the Pyramid.

Q3.  Was a realistice deadline set at the SJFA West Region Annual General Meeting which will enable the West Region to retain control of the emerging WoSFL? Or will we lose control?
Response: It has been confirmed that whilst the West AGM dealt with their re-organisation, there was no discussion on the Pyramid or the likelihood of a WoSFL being set-up over the next 12 months.

Q4.  Can the SJFA Management (TJ) be trusted to broker a good deal for the West Region with the Pyramid Working Group / SFA within an agreed timescale?  Or should the West Region take over negotiations?
Response: Time will tell.


I would suggest that a firm deadline is set for 31st January 2019 for the formation of a West Region controlled WoSFL which will enable all WR clubs to transfer over to the Pyramid for 2019/20.

If this deadline cannot be met by the above date then a Club led initiative should begin (in earnest) on 1st February 2019 with the support of the EoSFL.

 

Edited by Pyramidic

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If it is to be a juniors initiative I believe  it  has to be a West Region initiative. The SJFA is looking for a role which, I suspect, doesn't exist.

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Thats if the SJFA is allowed by the SFA to take control over a WOSL, there are so many factors to consider that would make it much less simple for the WSJFA to just assume control over it, perhaps the amateur leagues or SOSL may feel similarly empowered to lead or consult on any moves within the pyramid?

Its great that you are thinking along the lines of specific time frames, but in the interest of fairness I think the deadline has to be much earlier to allow another group the opportunity to have sufficient time to start their own WOSL project for 2019/2020.

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It appears from the AGM that TJ intends to plough on with the “SJFA in the Pyramid” route which simply isn’t going to happen regardless of the vote, he can’t enter the Pyramid in the East for starters.

There is no place in Senior football for the SJFA. The SFA obviously control Registrations and Referee appointments, there is no such thing as Re-instatements, and the SFA control all Disciplinary matters, so what would be left for TJ and the SJFA to do? The answer is nothing.

The SJFA need to remain as the SJFA and cater for all remaining clubs who don’t want to move to the Pyramid, and let a fresh new WOSFL (and NoSFL) be formed. As far as I am aware steps are being taken for this to happen for 2019/20.  Ideally the whole of the WRJFA move to become the WoSFL, but it does seem that not all clubs would want this to happen, so like the SJFA, the WRJFA should continue to exist to cater for them.

I’m also sure that many of those clubs who want a WoSFL, would want a fresh start with a new WoSFL Board to run the league.

I don’t see the transition being any smoother or clear cut than that in the East.

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20 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

It appears from the AGM that TJ intends to plough on with the “SJFA in the Pyramid” route which simply isn’t going to happen regardless of the vote, he can’t enter the Pyramid in the East for starters.

There is no place in Senior football for the SJFA. The SFA obviously control Registrations and Referee appointments, there is no such thing as Re-instatements, and the SFA control all Disciplinary matters, so what would be left for TJ and the SJFA to do? The answer is nothing.

The SJFA need to remain as the SJFA and cater for all remaining clubs who don’t want to move to the Pyramid, and let a fresh new WOSFL (and NoSFL) be formed. As far as I am aware steps are being taken for this to happen for 2019/20.  Ideally the whole of the WRJFA move to become the WoSFL, but it does seem that not all clubs would want this to happen, so like the SJFA, the WRJFA should continue to exist to cater for them.

I’m also sure that many of those clubs who want a WoSFL, would want a fresh start with a new WoSFL Board to run the league.

I don’t see the transition being any smoother or clear cut than that in the East.

Yeah, they're currently backed into a corner and are playing for time hoping to preserve their own positions and as much of the status quo as possible or even better that the issue will go away.

It won't, and if left to the current regime's timetable I suspect we'd still be humming and hawing this time next season.

I could be wrong, but I think the WoS will eventually happen under the auspices of the EoS...there doesn't seem too much confidence remaining regarding the motives or negotiating abilities of the current set-up, and I think a lot of teams will see a clean break as the best way ahead

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27 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

Yeah, they're currently backed into a corner and are playing for time hoping to preserve their own positions and as much of the status quo as possible or even better that the issue will go away.

It won't, and if left to the current regime's timetable I suspect we'd still be humming and hawing this time next season.

I could be wrong, but I think the WoS will eventually happen under the auspices of the EoS...there doesn't seem too much confidence remaining regarding the motives or negotiating abilities of the current set-up, and I think a lot of teams will see a clean break as the best way ahead

Being spun off from the EoS seems simple enough. Additional clubs copy Clydebank by applying for the EoS. EoS go hold on there's too many of you now, we'll just help you set up your own league.

Gives a formal structure to how to start a break away.

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It seems a complete and utter madness for the WRJFA to have built an exciting pyramid structure - with its inception in the 2018/19 season presenting a formidable 16 team West Region Premiership, Championship, League 1 and League 2 - and then to allow its new structure to be completely dismantled for the 2019/20 season.

Its destruction does not need to happen and basically it would only need to be tweaked to join the SFA Pyramid by allowing a gateway to League 2 for Amateur clubs and a pathway to the Premiership for relegated clubs from the Lowland League. The latter change would be simple to integrate - just build into the rules that an additional club(s) will be relegated from the Premiership to the Championship in the event of a club(s) being relegated from the Lowland League.

From what Burnie_man and others "in the know" have said the “SJFA in the Pyramid” route is simply not going to happen because of the characters involved in SJFA administration.

The issue is therefore appears to be in the hands of the clubs attending SJFA West Region Annual General Meeting on Wednesday, 27 June 2018. A muted response to the important SFA Pyramid issues at the meeting will in my opinion will effectively spell the death-knell of the new WRJFA pyramid structure.

 Never has there been a more important time for dynamic and enlightened leadership from the WRJFA Management.

By January and February 2019 progressive clubs will be "on the move" if there has been no action on delivering full integration into the SFA Pyramid for the 2019/20 season.

Edited by Pyramidic

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The structure in place for next season in simple for a new WoS structure - the Premiership sits alongside the EoS and then you have 3 (possibly 4 leagues below if the SoS can be amalgamated in and the bottom 2 leagues regionalised) leagues below that with promotion and relegation.

Its really straightforward. It just needs the clubs to lead.

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It seems a complete and utter madness for the WRJFA to have built an exciting pyramid structure - with its inception in the 2018/19 season presenting a formidable 16 team West Region Premiership, Championship, League 1 and League 2 - and then to allow its new structure to be completely dismantled for the 2019/20 season.
Its destruction does not need to happen and basically it would only need to be tweaked to join the SFA Pyramid by allowing a gateway to League 2 for Amateur clubs and a pathway to the Premiership for relegated clubs from the Lowland League. The latter change would be simple to integrate - just build into the rules that an additional club(s) will be relegated from the Premiership to the Championship in the event of a club(s) being relegated from the Lowland League.
From what Burnie_man and others "in the know" have said the “SJFA in the Pyramid” route is simply not going to happen because of the characters involved in SJFA administration.
The issue is therefore appears to be in the hands of the clubs attending SJFA West Region Annual General Meeting on Wednesday, 27 June 2018. A muted response to the important SFA Pyramid issues at the meeting will in my opinion will effectively spell the death-knell of the new WRJFA pyramid structure.
 Never has there been a more important time for dynamic and enlightened leadership from the WRJFA Management.
By January and February 2019 progressive clubs will be "on the move" if there has been no action on delivering full integration into the SFA Pyramid for the 2019/20 season.

What about existing Licensed clubs who have no interest in joining the junior ranks? It has to be a new organisation not led by SJFA.

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11 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:


What about existing Licensed clubs who have no interest in joining the junior ranks? It has to be a new organisation not led by SJFA.

In the "new world" of the SFA Pyramid I would like to think that the term "Junior" will be eventually be integrated into "Non-League".   If the English could get rid of their Amateur Cup and its long heritage, there is no reason why Juniors as a grade cannot integrate.

Edited by Pyramidic

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In the "new world" of the SFA Pyramid I would like to think that the term "Junior" will be eventually be integrated into "Non-League".   If the English could get rid of their Amateur Cup and its long heritage, there is no reason why Juniors as a grade cannot integrate.

Yes but my point being its unfair to expect a leading amateur club with arguably better facilities and players than lower level junior clubs to join the bottom of the junior pile when thats not the case in the EOSL, if the SJFA are willing to admit say for talking sake Glasgow Uni and Oban saints etc into the top levels of Junior football then fair enough, my argument would be defeated. Also the talk of a west east super dooper superleague would have to stop and the juniors agree to join the EOSL at level 9 to make it consistent all the way across the lowland league pyramid, can anyone see them agreeing to this? Because that Is where I foresee problems.

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There clearly isn't going to be an E/W Superdooper League - there isn't anyone left in the East who would excite the West clubs in any way to get that league started.

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14 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:


Yes but my point being its unfair to expect a leading amateur club with arguably better facilities and players than lower level junior clubs to join the bottom of the junior pile

Which amateur team did you have in mind?

 

"Also the talk of a west east super dooper superleague would have to stop and the juniors agree to join the EOSL at level 9 to make it consistent all the way across the lowland league pyramid, "

...and why would West teams join an east league?

Edited by Khufu2

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If the chat from the agm holds any water I doubt the 4 region wide leagues will not last even if they all moved over to the pyramid.

Smaller clubs would use it as an opportunity to reinstate district/regional leagues at the lowest level.

Edited by FairWeatherFan

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Which amateur team did you have in mind?
 
"Also the talk of a west east super dooper superleague would have to stop and the juniors agree to join the EOSL at level 9 to make it consistent all the way across the lowland league pyramid, "
...and why would West teams join an east league?

Sorry for confusion that was poorly worded, should the agm proposal go forward the East would have to join tier 9 in the EOSL, can you see them going for that if the sjfa to pyramid switch happens?
I can think of a few amateur teams with facilities like Drumchapel, Oban. Senior clubs like Bonnyton, Glasgow Uni. These clubs should have every opportunity to join a WOSL.

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1 hour ago, Khufu2 said:

...and why would West teams join an east league?

I would be interested to know how Khufu2 sees the next 12 months evolving in the West Region?

Can the SJFA Management (TJ) be trusted to broker a good deal for the West Region with the Pyramid Working Group / SFA within an agreed timescale?

What is going to happen Khufu2 if TJ fails - as seems likely?  Are we going to see a migration of clubs to an EoSL run WoSL by the end of January 2019?

What is your solution Khufu2 to avoid this debacle when we already have an exciting WRJFA pyramid structure for the 2018/19 season?

What is the cut-off date for the formation of a SFA backed WoSL Pyramid?  I have suggested that the point of no return will be reached on 31st January 2019.

Edited by Pyramidic

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I very, very much doubt that western LL clubs, and maybe even western L2 clubs, would entertain the notion of being relegated into a league in which you could play your last game of the season two months after the penultimate game, or with the possibility you could have to reschedule a late-season fixture for a stag do.

If the WRSJFA want a role in the pyramid - and despite what some say, there's no theoretical reason why not - they'll need to persuade those above that they can competently run a league.

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Once a backlog is created by giving precedence to the Junior Cup it'll further the idea the juniors shouldn't be running the WoSFL.

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3 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I very, very much doubt that western LL clubs, and maybe even western L2 clubs, would entertain the notion of being relegated into a league in which you could play your last game of the season two months after the penultimate game, or with the possibility you could have to reschedule a late-season fixture for a stag do.

If the WRSJFA want a role in the pyramid - and despite what some say, there's no theoretical reason why not - they'll need to persuade those above that they can competently run a league.

And that could be difficult, given that historically they haven't even managed to produce a fixture list.

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20 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I very, very much doubt that western LL clubs, and maybe even western L2 clubs, would entertain the notion of being relegated into a league in which you could play your last game of the season two months after the penultimate game, or with the possibility you could have to reschedule a late-season fixture for a stag do.

If the WRSJFA want a role in the pyramid - and despite what some say, there's no theoretical reason why not - they'll need to persuade those above that they can competently run a league.

The PWG "minutes" that have been posted on here essentially said that the Juniors wouldn't be joining the pyramid unless the fixtures issue was resolved.

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