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Structure for 2019/20 and beyond


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I agree the ultimate aim should probably be two region wide divisions like the old Super/Premier, then regionalised below. I guess eventually it'd be advantageous for all top division teams to become licenced.

As for next season, it would depend on numbers. I think for a swift resolution if it comes to pass that the rump of the South-of-Tay applies then depending on numbers, a similar conference system might be appropriate. I can see where Burnieman is coming from saying this might leave a bit of a sour taste in the mouth with some clubs who may apply.

Hopefully across next season we will see progress in the North and West as well. There's a poll running on Fitba North which is showing a majority in favour of a formal structure below the Highland League, rather than the current model of application. The geography of the region though will probably mean different solutions need to be found than in the East.

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I think 16 team division to be too much to get done by end of april unless get rid of league cup and more midweek at start because August this year mostly filled with cup ties
I think the League Cup would revert to a knock out format. Groups are handy this season due to a 24 game league season as opposed to 30.
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Aye, with our weather and lack of floodlights at many grounds; a sectional league cup with 16 team leagues, plus local, regional and national knockout cups would be mental... not sure who in their right minds would think it feasible :whistle

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Surely the structure for 2019/20 depends on what you're trying to achieve. If it's to lure over the remaining Junior clubs then the best thing would be to wait until the dust settles, and then go out and speak to them one-by-one after the summer. They may prefer a 1-3, more regionalised model, or they may be happier with 1-1-2. If there's interest in large numbers coming then promise everyone can start at tier 7, no matter how many come and run conferences again; if not, then go with what most clubs likely to be outside the EOS Premier want.

There should be no animus against clubs that didn't join before. That's not in the best interests of non-league football and the objective ought to be to break down the remaining barriers in the east, and to demonstrate a good model to the west.

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56 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Surely the structure for 2019/20 depends on what you're trying to achieve. If it's to lure over the remaining Junior clubs then the best thing would be to wait until the dust settles, and then go out and speak to them one-by-one after the summer. They may prefer a 1-3, more regionalised model, or they may be happier with 1-1-2. If there's interest in large numbers coming then promise everyone can start at tier 7, no matter how many come and run conferences again; if not, then go with what most clubs likely to be outside the EOS Premier want.

There should be no animus against clubs that didn't join before. That's not in the best interests of non-league football and the objective ought to be to break down the remaining barriers in the east, and to demonstrate a good model to the west.

Kinda has to be two tiers. Everything so far from the EoS has been a 2019/20 EoS Premier with regionalisation below that. There's been no public suggestion of a 3 tiered system for 2019/20 because right now they don't have the numbers for it and it would make things messier with 3 conferences this year (We're already talking about 6th placed playoffs that might not be necessary).

To spring a post AGM/mid season decision to relegate clubs finishing in the bottom couple of places in each conference wouldn't be fair.

I think they might be quite happy that 2019/20 essentially sorts itself out because there's more pressing issues to be resolved. Like the WoS/SoS/South of Tay Juniors/Tay Bridge Boundary/Promotion & Relegation system to the LL/Exactly how to form the EoS Premier and probably other things I can't think of right now.

EDIT:

image.png.b83b8a2dadc03a1f91f04f7da880202a.png

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/lower-leagues/focus-on-local-football-east-of-scotland-league-now-place-to-be-1-4752193

I don't think there's any club left that would expect to be placed in the 2019/20 Premier, but I do think there would be clubs put off in applying next year if they thought they'd be entering a Tier 8 league. You've already seen Tayport slightly tie themselves to the Tayside clubs and Whitburn & Fauldhouse rumoured to look at entering the West Region. All 3 clubs would likely be of benefit to the EoSFL.

Once you've got everyone in you can build from there. It's not like the East Region stood still, it evolved over time and i'm sure the EoSFL will as well.

image.thumb.png.8a3fcd6b931c4cb992429bef83a9f83a.png

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1 hour ago, GordonS said:

Surely the structure for 2019/20 depends on what you're trying to achieve. If it's to lure over the remaining Junior clubs then the best thing would be to wait until the dust settles, and then go out and speak to them one-by-one after the summer. They may prefer a 1-3, more regionalised model, or they may be happier with 1-1-2. If there's interest in large numbers coming then promise everyone can start at tier 7, no matter how many come and run conferences again; if not, then go with what most clubs likely to be outside the EOS Premier want.

There should be no animus against clubs that didn't join before. That's not in the best interests of non-league football and the objective ought to be to break down the remaining barriers in the east, and to demonstrate a good model to the west.

The EoS Board aren't going to go out and speak to any non-member club, they didn't this year and they wont next year despite some Junior blazers accusing them of "canvassing" Junior clubs to move.

The exisiting board and 13 members decided on next seasons structure, and I assume next season the board and 39 members will discuss and decide the structure below the Premier for 2019/20. They know they hold the whip hand and it's a case of join and be made welcome, or not.

I personally hope regionalisation doesn't happen at tier 7, but regardless of what is decided I hope we get an indication of options being discussed by the board before the end of the year based on a number of scenarios, so clubs have an idea of what may happen.

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I do think 1-1-2 is ultimately the right way to go, going straight from 3 parallel leagues to 1-1-2 (providing enough new clubs join obviously) is probably too quick. I think another 3 conference season at tier 7 is needed to get to the right structure.

@Burnie_man what are you worried about? Blackburn will easily reach the EOS Premier. ;) 

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1 minute ago, Marten said:

I do think 1-1-2 is ultimately the right way to go, going straight from 3 parallel leagues to 1-1-2 (providing enough new clubs join obviously) is probably too quick. I think another 3 conference season at tier 7 is needed to get to the right structure.

@Burnie_man what are you worried about? Blackburn will easily reach the EOS Premier. ;) 

LOL mibees aye, mibees naw!  I just think regionalisation is a backward step at tier 7, which is really the equivalent of the East Premierleague was in the Juniors.  We also know from experience that it's never easy to decide the demarcation point splitting the region in two and keeping a balance. Someone suggested Blackburn in a "regional" league with Jeanfield and St.Andrews for example!

The West Region Juniors have gone full-on for next season with no regionalisation at all which maybe is a step too far.  As you say 1-1-2 is a sensible compromise with the top 32 playing regionwide, but another season of Conferences might be required to get to that point.

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6 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

LOL mibees aye, mibees naw!  I just think regionalisation is a backward step at tier 7, which is really the equivalent of the East Premierleague was in the Juniors.  We also know from experience that it's never easy to decide the demarcation point splitting the region in two and keeping a balance. Someone suggested Blackburn in a "regional" league with Jeanfield and St.Andrews for example!

The West Region Juniors have gone full-on for next season with no regionalisation at all which maybe is a step too far.  As you say 1-1-2 is a sensible compromise with the top 32 playing regionwide, but another season of Conferences might be required to get to that point.

As Tier 7 doesn't actually exist anywhere on the pyramid, you might as well make it as equitable as possible before artificially creating tiers below it. The margins between the clubs in 2018/19 have the potential to be incredibly fine as clubs will not only be chasing success on the field but progress off it to get licenced.

Just look at this last season in the EoS. The basic dividing lines for 3 tiers this year would be 5th/6th and 10th/11th, for last year those positions were only split on goal difference.

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I’d be very surprised if there is a Tier 8 in 2019-20. 

I think the main questions are:

How many new teams are needed to move from 2 x Tier 7 leagues to 3 x Tier 7 leagues?

To which presumably the answer is 9 more teams could apply and they could run 2 x 16 team leagues at Tier 7. 10-12 new applicants is awkward and 13+ new applicants leads to 3 x 12 or more in each league. 

Do you seed the Tier 7 conferences or use regional leagues? 

Again it’s balanced and I realise Blackburn to St Andrew’s isn’t hyper local but it seems to me the quality differential won’t be as big as this year and Scone Thistle to Tweedmouth (on a Tuesday in January obviously) would be a bit daft if you can avoid it by using regional conferences. 

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  • 2 months later...

With Selkirk withdrawing from the Lowland League I may have been swayed by an idealistic permutation that would see a 3 Tier Set up for 2019-20.

Licenced EoS Champion is promoted and the SPFL42/HL/LL playoff results in the Lowland League not having to force a relegation to balance numbers.

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You get parity across the Conferences in terms of relegation from the 6th Tier to the 8th Tier. 16x EoS Premier, 16x EoS First leaving 6 clubs. You can take in Syngenta, a revival Selkirk and the 20 South of Tay Junior Clubs to give 2x 14 team North and South Divisions.

image.png.bbe26379870dd0e0d7f42523679b8638.png

Of course it all depends on the playoffs, EoS clubs accepting 3 tiers and attracting enough new members to make it work. In other words it ain't gonna happen :)

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12 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

With Selkirk withdrawing from the Lowland League I may have been swayed by an idealistic permutation that would see a 3 Tier Set up for 2019-20.

Licenced EoS Champion is promoted and the SPFL42/HL/LL playoff results in the Lowland League not having to force a relegation to balance numbers.

image.png.a62573cbddf4f735b7e0a2dc96b15e5f.png

You get parity across the Conferences in terms of relegation from the 6th Tier to the 8th Tier. 16x EoS Premier, 16x EoS First leaving 6 clubs. You can take in Syngenta, a revival Selkirk and the 20 South of Tay Junior Clubs to give 2x 14 team North and South Divisions.

image.png.bbe26379870dd0e0d7f42523679b8638.png

Of course it all depends on the playoffs, EoS clubs accepting 3 tiers and attracting enough new members to make it work. In other words it ain't gonna happen :)

Decent plan, and as I have said before the guys at Tweedmouth want to be in a division more equitable to their current ability so they can build from there.  I'm sure that is true of a few clubs.

It's almost certain that there will be more clubs joining from the East Juniors next season, they will boost numbers at tier 8. 

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11 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Decent plan, and as I have said before the guys at Tweedmouth want to be in a division more equitable to their current ability so they can build from there.  I'm sure that is true of a few clubs.

It's almost certain that there will be more clubs joining from the East Juniors next season, they will boost numbers at tier 8. 

Tweedmouth should be making this suggestion when the time comes as it was suggested that the remaining would be at tier 7 next year. I think if you go to t8 it won't be appealing for Fauldhouse whitburn etc so could lead to more years of stagnation and could lead to them wasting more time before jumping over

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2 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Tweedmouth should be making this suggestion when the time comes as it was suggested that the remaining would be at tier 7 next year. I think if you go to t8 it won't be appealing for Fauldhouse whitburn etc so could lead to more years of stagnation and could lead to them wasting more time before jumping over

Tough shit. Faldhouse had their chance to join this season but the lure of the "Superleague" and a possible Scottish Cup place was too much for them. With the way their season is going Whitburn will be relegated to a south region division anyway if they stayed Junior. If the remaining Junior teams are good enough they'd be promoted from the tier 8 division in their first season.

The alternative would be another season of conferences for all but 16 of the current teams.

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9 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Tough shit. Faldhouse had their chance to join this season but the lure of the "Superleague" and a possible Scottish Cup place was too much for them. With the way their season is going Whitburn will be relegated to a south region division anyway if they stayed Junior. If the remaining Junior teams are good enough they'd be promoted from the tier 8 division in their first season.

The alternative would be another season of conferences for all but 16 of the current teams.

I think it should be conferences at t7 if they come over if not be their last chance and it would be tier 8

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Hypothetical Best Case Scenario for the 20 South of Tay Juniors.

3x Tier 7 Conferences:

3 Teams in the 2020/21 EoS Premier as Conference winners

13 Teams in the 2020/21 EoS First as Top 5/6 in 

4 Teams in the 2020/21 EoS Second

Or 

2x Regional Tier 8 Divisions:

4 Teams in the 2020/21 EoS First as champions/promotion winners

16 Teams in the 2020/21 EoS Second

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There are so many variables and alternatives it's almost mindboggling to even bother considering just now.

If it's just the current clubs (or a handful more new clubs) you could have Premier + 2 conferences... or Premier + North & South... or Premier + First + Second, although it means the bottom few clubs dropping 2 levels at once, plus you need enough new clubs to want to join at tier 8 to fill  a proper division.

If you got many more new clubs you could have Premier + 3 conferences... or Premier + North & Central & South... or Premier + First + North & South... or even in subsequent seasons Premier + First + Second + Third (though I'd think that very unlikely).

Until there's some idea of how many clubs may wish to join; and what current clubs want - and that'll involve many factors like quality gap, travel, moving more steps away from LL / EOS Premier, derbies, etc.; it's impossible to tell. Plus both influence each other, and will only be clear in spring.

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1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Hypothetical Best Case Scenario for the 20 South of Tay Juniors.

3x Tier 7 Conferences:

3 Teams in the 2020/21 EoS Premier as Conference winners

13 Teams in the 2020/21 EoS First as Top 5/6 in 

4 Teams in the 2020/21 EoS Second

Or 

2x Regional Tier 8 Divisions:

4 Teams in the 2020/21 EoS First as champions/promotion winners

16 Teams in the 2020/21 EoS Second

Who are the 20 south of Tay clubs the 17 obvious Fife and Lothians clubs and Tayport.  Who are the other 2. Scone and luncarty

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8 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Who are the 20 south of Tay clubs the 17 obvious Fife and Lothians clubs and Tayport.  Who are the other 2. Scone and luncarty

Scone & Kinnoull.

Luncarty fall just north of the HL/LL line. In fact I've seen it said if Luncartys ground was in the South of the town they'd be a LL club.

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