The History Thread

[jessmagic]

The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William L. Shirer is an exceptional read so far.

He was actually present in Germany before, during and after the war and spoke with some of the main Nazis.

This gives his thoughts some real weight.

The most interesting fact I have come upon thus far is that the Nazis were effectively legally allowed to take over their government - chilling reading and there are many echoes of what is  happening at this current time with Trump, Brexit etc.

The value of effective propaganda can never be underestimated.

[JamesM82]

12 minutes ago, jessmagic said:

The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William L. Shirer is an exceptional read so far.

He was actually present in Germany before, during and after the war and spoke with some of the main Nazis.

This gives his thoughts some real weight.

The most interesting fact I have come upon thus far is that the Nazis were effectively legally allowed to take over their government - chilling reading and there are many echoes of what is  happening at this current time with Trump, Brexit etc.

The value of effective propaganda can never be underestimated.

It's good on the rise, not so good on the fall because Shirer eventually had to leave Germany. The other main source, General Halder (via his voluminous diaries), was sacked by Hitler in September 1942, so the book is a bit light on the downfall.

[jessmagic]

8 minutes ago, JamesM82 said:

It's good on the rise, not so good on the fall because Shirer eventually had to leave Germany. The other main source, General Halder (via his voluminous diaries), was sacked by Hitler in September 1942, so the book is a bit light on the downfall.

Ok still on the rise at the moment. 

Will need to hunt out a good book on the fall. 

If you have any suggestions? 

[Jacksgranda]

"Adolf Hitler: My Part In His Downfall" by Spike Milligan

[tongue_tied_danny]

On 23/08/2018 at 21:38, HibeeJibee said:

 

I'm a huge fan of "epic" documentary series - the sort of stuff with 15, 20, even 25 episodes that you can watch regularly over a decent period of time and get the story at a proper pace and in much better depth and chronology. Usually done by great narrators, too.

I've got The Great War (Michael Redgrave), The World at War (Laurence Olivier), War in the Air (Mac Hobley), Victory at Sea (from US so rather bombastic) and The Christians (Bamber Gascoigne!), which are all 20+... also A History of Britain (Simon Schama), which is about 15. I used to have The People's Century on VHS but they were thrown out years ago. Listened to This Sceptred Isle when doing lots of long-distance driving  a couple of years.

Anyone think of other "epic" documentary series in this vein?

There was a series called The Cold War, that was produced by the same people who made The World at War, and was narrated by Kenneth Branagh. They're all on YouTube.

Another that I enjoyed was The Untold History of the United States, produced and narrated by Oliver Stone.

[HibeeJibee]

On ‎24‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 07:34, Jacksgranda said:

I've heard of them, but couldn't tell you much about them.

Both fascinating.


Athelstan - ascension, warfare, 'first King of England', 'first overlord of Britain', legal reforms, etc.

Eric Bloodaxe - Viking leadership, Northumbrian independency, etc.

 

[sureiknow]

On 12/06/2018 at 19:04, Herman Hessian said:

bloke who was my next door neighbour when i was growing up was a german; this was the 1970's 

I used to deliver the post to a guy who was 14 and at the end of the War was captured. 

He ended up in Northern Ireland as a P.O.W.

Stayed there the rest of his life.

Also my Grandfather was in WW1,  my Dad said he was in the Machine Gun Corp.

And as you have probably heard a lot refused to talk about the War he never either. 

God knows what he seen and done.

[peasy23]

I used to deliver the post to a guy who was 14 and at the end of the War was captured. 
He ended up in Northern Ireland as a P.O.W.
Stayed there the rest of his life.
Also my Grandfather was in WW1,  my Dad said he was in the Machine Gun Corp.
And as you have probably heard a lot refused to talk about the War he never either. 
God knows what he seen and done.

My aunt was born in Devon, but her parents were both Italian. Her dad was a POW and ended up working on a farm, and instead of returning home his wife came to join him in Devon after the war.

[HibeeJibee]

Chatted to an old chap from Coldstream a while ago who was a kid during WWII.

They got on well with the free Poles who were stationed in the Borders; on Fridays they would pelt the Italian PoW's while they marched back in from the fields, then stay out until pub closing-time "to see the Hondurans fighting with the Irish"  .

[WhiteRoseKillie]

On 09/06/2018 at 21:02, Dindeleux said:

Had to do my usual 1 line open post but this is a thread for people to talk about history.  I am a bit history fan but really only from about 1850 up to the end of the cold war.  Anything further back than that I tend to lose interest in as I find it hard to really think of what life was like.

My favourite historical period is the 1945-1990 political challenges after WW2 and of course including the cold war.  Appreciate that this is quite modern history.

Aye, we called that modern Studies when I was at school. I'd been a wage slave for nigh on a decade when the Wall came down...

[dorlomin]

WW2 by week

 

 

[HibeeJibee]

Brief mention of the loss of the Athenia there. Often forgotten the supposed Phoney War opened with a British liner being torpedoed on the very first day and over 100 passengers drowning.

[Reggie Perrin]

My undergrad was history. Absolutely love it. Vikings, pirates, Romans all the way through to modern stuff. 
The books I have taken the most from (wouldn't necessarily say 'enjoyed' for obvious reasons) have been memoirs. I enjoy reading the perspective of those who were actually there rather than the conjecture, assumptions and agendas of those who write after the fact. I'd highly recommend the following: 
With a Machine Gun to Cambrai by George Coppard (WW1 memoir; British soldier; harrowing) 
Iron coffins by Herbert Werner (u-boat captain. If you read one book in your life it should be this one)
Resistance by Agnes Humbert (French resistance member during ww2) 
First Light by Geoffrey Wellum (spitfire pilot. It's a bit 'old boys network' but it's brilliant. Incredible descriptions of dogfights, makes you feel you are in the middle of it)
Always keen to read more history so any good recommendations would be much appreciated. 

Just finished First Light.
Those "chaps" had balls the size of watermelons.

[Sergeant Wilson]

3 minutes ago, Reggie Perrin said:

Just finished First Light.
Those "chaps" had balls the size of watermelons.

The Snip thread for this pish.

[Reggie Perrin]

Outstanding book.
Not on the same level but would recommend Chickenhawk by Robert Mason. He was a Huey pilot during the Vietnam War and although he gets a bit technical about the mechanics of the helicopter in the early parts of the book, it does build an understanding of its capabilities and what he was being asked to do in combat. Huge unexpected twist in the very last page of the book too!

A good few years back I worked with a lad who in the 60's had worked in the factory that produced the Huey's.
He claimed that seeing footage of downed copters on the nightly news was a good indicator of the overtime coming his way.

[Herman Hessian]

thought about sticking this in the Random Matches You Are Going To... thread, under "Harold  Godwinson and Chums v William the b*****d", but this thread seemed a bit more relevant; no point putting any of my shitty pictures up - those in this linked Guardian article are so much better; suffice to say that this sort of behaviour, and the whole Sussex Bonfire goings on, make East Sussex just about the best place to live in the known world at around this time of year...

 

[highlandcowden]

On ‎26‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 12:02, peasy23 said:

On ‎26‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 07:35, sureiknow said:

I used to deliver the post to a guy who was 14 and at the end of the War was captured. 
He ended up in Northern Ireland as a P.O.W.
Stayed there the rest of his life.
Also my Grandfather was in WW1,  my Dad said he was in the Machine Gun Corp.
And as you have probably heard a lot refused to talk about the War he never either. 
God knows what he seen and done.

My aunt was born in Devon, but her parents were both Italian. Her dad was a POW and ended up working on a farm, and instead of returning home his wife came to join him in Devon after the war.

my great uncle was an Italian antiaircraft artilleryman captured at djaraboub(probably spelt wrong)oasis in north Africa;after time spent at massive POW camps in south Africa he ended up doing farm labouring in the black isle just north of inverness. After returning to Italy after the war he decided there was nothing for him there and returned to the black isle where he met and married my great aunt and where he lived till he died.

he was the only relative of mine that fought on land during the war...and that was for the axis!!!

[Bully Wee Villa]

Watching a bit about the Hundred Years Wars and was wondering something. Say Henry V had survived a few more years after Agincourt and managed to install himself as King of England AND France, how would he or his successor have ruled? Would they have lived in London and run France as an English colony or would he have fucked off to Paris and run things the other way round? I always get the feeling that those old kings cared more about France than England. 

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

#Regsit

[Granny Danger]

Maybe more for the politics thread, but there’s a disturbing similarity between what is happening in Italy at the moment and what happened at the very start of the Nazi regime in Germany.

“Those who cannot remember the past... “  The thing is the recent past is well documented and there is no excuse to forget.