Alex Jack Cup 2018-19

[HibeeJibee]

Probably 1:30pm - that's the standard November-January cup kickoff, 2pm for league games.

I'd be surprised if it ended-up at any unlit venue, though, and certainly not Eyemouth ... although it is closer to the equator!

[Le Tout P'ti FC]

Both Bo'ness and Haddington expelled. Camelon win by default.

[Jason King]

 

You can take the teams out of the Juniors.............

Well done to Camelon on qualifying for the Scottish Cup next season.

[pipedreamer]

5 minutes ago, Jason King said:

 

You can take the teams out of the Juniors.............

Well done to Camelon on qualifying for the Scottish Cup next season.

Camelon would still need to beat the winners of the south version to qualify for the Scottish cup. Personally, it would make more sense for the game to be replayed between Bo’ness and Haddington or alternatively. Broxburn to get a reprieve and have a showpiece final between Camelon and broxburn.

[Jason King]

Who did Boness and Haddington bear in the previous round? Could they not play off to play Camelon?

Whilst its amusing that it has come to this its also ever so slightly embarrasing for the EOS and I'm pretty sure the Camelon players/officials/fans would rather they won the Cup on the park rather than gaining  a medal because 2 other teams made a slight cock up on the registration front.

[Auld Heid]

8 minutes ago, Jason King said:

Who did Boness and Haddington bear in the previous round? Could they not play off to play Camelon?

Whilst its amusing that it has come to this its also ever so slightly embarrasing for the EOS and I'm pretty sure the Camelon players/officials/fans would rather they won the Cup on the park rather than gaining  a medal because 2 other teams made a slight cock up on the registration front.

Bo'ness have a track record of not always playing to the rules on player registrations. 

They have previously been kicked out the Scottish Junior Cup for registration offences and also tried to sign and register a player who was already on the books of another club.

It seems they don't learn lessons

[wullie robb]

1 hour ago, pipedreamer said:

Camelon would still need to beat the winners of the south version to qualify for the Scottish cup. Personally, it would make more sense for the game to be replayed between Bo’ness and Haddington or alternatively. Broxburn to get a reprieve and have a showpiece final between Camelon and broxburn.

Broxburn get beat in the s/f then go into the final or 2 teams that break the rules play again 

Camelon win the cup, it is sadly the only outcome. 

[Ginaro]

2 hours ago, Jason King said:

Who did Boness and Haddington bear in the previous round? Could they not play off to play Camelon?

Whilst its amusing that it has come to this its also ever so slightly embarrasing for the EOS and I'm pretty sure the Camelon players/officials/fans would rather they won the Cup on the park rather than gaining  a medal because 2 other teams made a slight cock up on the registration front.

I'm sure if you offered Camelon the chance to go straight into the match against Bonnyton Thistle or Mid Annanadale they'd take it. Who knows if there's even medals?

[FairWeatherFan]

Camelon still get a cup final. The real prize is usually seen as the crack at Scottish cup entry, which through licencing a number of teams might gain regardless.

[PastyMan]

If only SimpsonsSPFL twitter covered the EoS

Meanwhile in Camelon ....

[Excalibur]

2 hours ago, pipedreamer said:

Camelon would still need to beat the winners of the south version to qualify for the Scottish cup. Personally, it would make more sense for the game to be replayed between Bo’ness and Haddington or alternatively. Broxburn to get a reprieve and have a showpiece final between Camelon and broxburn.

The two clubs broke the rules, they shouldn't get a second bite at the cherry, Dundonald didn't.   Well done Camelon.

[wullie robb]

2 minutes ago, Excalibur said:

The two clubs broke the rules, they shouldn't get a second bite at the cherry, Dundonald didn't.   Well done Camelon.

Camelon I would imagine will be a bit pissed off. 

They and Bo'ness would have made a fair bit money from the Final so surely must be rightly pissed off. 

[Excalibur]

1 minute ago, wullie robb said:

Camelon I would imagine will be a bit pissed off. 

They and Bo'ness would have made a fair bit money from the Final so surely must be rightly pissed off. 

I'm sure Camelon's disappointment will be lessened by now having pretty much a bye into the Senior Scottish next year.

[Ginaro]

A Junior club has their say...

There's a club statement from Bo'ness: http://www.bonessunitedfc.co.uk/news/club-statement-on-alex-jack-cup-2361395.html

"This suspension was received when the player was still registered with his ex Junior Club in season 2017-2018." - does this mean that the player incurred the suspension last season and it has carried over to the EOS?

As for Haddington - they had two EOS suspensions at the time: https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/4404/mens-suspension-list-los15-18-october-2018.pdf - but would they be suspended from the cups as well?

[HibeeJibee]

FFS .

Is it just bad luck that already Dundonald then now Haddington + Bo'ness have fallen foul of the rules... or was this sort of situation happening regularly in the Juniors too? I do not recall many cases of clubs getting expelled but didn't follow it as closely. Or was it happening but often going undetected?
 

7 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Who knows if there's even medals?

There is definitely a cup (actually trophy, below) and medals for both finalists in the Alex Jack Cup. There is a shield (under) in the South & East of Scotland Cup-Winners' Shield and mementos of some kind for the winners, not sure about losers as it's a one-off game. Camelon should get winners medals, IMO: while it's less important than the title or Scottish Cup slot, it's recognition.

 

2 hours ago, pipedreamer said:

Personally, it would make more sense for the game to be replayed between Bo’ness and Haddington or alternatively. Broxburn to get a reprieve and have a showpiece final between Camelon and broxburn.

I suppose the problem there is that, if Haddington or Broxburn went on to beat Camelon in the final, the latter could consider themself the victim of an injustice - similarly if the offences were simply allowed to cancel each other out? I don't see how you could put Broxburn into the final for happening to have lost other SF v Camelon: if they beat Camelon, they would be apoplectic?!


No-one plays ineligible players deliberately - no-one will be as disappointed as the 2 clubs (especially Bo'ness). Equally there are other losers, assuming the decision stands as there is always a right of appeal. Camelon win their first cup for a few years without the spectacle of a final or their share of the gate. Fans miss the occasion of a final as do interested neutrals. EOSFA miss out on good PR from a well-attended final and their share of the gate. Finally the late Sandy Jack's children haven't an opportunity to present the memorial trophy for their father at a final for the first time in its 30-year history.

Very disappointing situation .

[wullie robb]

3 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

FFS .

Is it just bad luck that already Dundonald then now Haddington + Bo'ness have fallen foul of the rules... or was this sort of situation happening regularly in the Juniors too? I do not recall many cases of clubs getting expelled but didn't follow it as closely. Or was it happening but often going undetected?
 

There is definitely a cup (actually trophy, below) and medals for both finalists in the Alex Jack Cup. There is a shield (under) in the South & East of Scotland Cup-Winners' Shield and mementos of some kind for the winners, not sure about losers as it's a one-off game. Camelon should get winners medals, IMO: while it's less important than the title or Scottish Cup slot, it's recognition.

 

I suppose the problem there is that, if Haddington or Broxburn went on to beat Camelon in the final, the latter could consider themself the victim of an injustice - similarly if the offences were simply allowed to cancel each other out? I don't see how you could put Broxburn into the final for happening to have lost other SF v Camelon: if they beat Camelon, they would be apoplectic?!


No-one plays ineligible players deliberately - no-one will be as disappointed as the 2 clubs (especially Bo'ness). Equally there are other losers, assuming the decision stands as there is always a right of appeal. Camelon win their first cup for a few years without the spectacle of a final or their share of the gate. Fans miss the occasion of a final as do interested neutrals. EOSFA miss out on good PR from a well-attended final and their share of the gate. Finally the late Sandy Jack's children haven't an opportunity to present the memorial trophy for their father at a final for the first time in its 30-year history.

Very disappointing situation .

Well said, I would think most people involved in Football would agree. 

[Excalibur]

Only solution would be for whoever Haddington and Bo played in quarters to have a play off midweek at a suitable ground to play final?

[Cyril]

No surprise to see the absolute roaster that runs Armadale's twitter getting involved, quite embarrassing to put that out there on official site

[HibeeJibee]

35 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

does this mean that the player incurred the suspension last season and it has carried over to the EOS?

As for Haddington - they had two EOS suspensions at the time: https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/4404/mens-suspension-list-los15-18-october-2018.pdf - but would they be suspended from the cups as well?

Unspent suspensions are re-applied when a player is registered by a new club. If as suggested on the Bo'ness thread their man is Comrie, then a "69329 Craig Comrie, formerly Sauchie FC" is highlighted in red at the top of the East of Scotland section on p2 with a unspent 2-match ban awaited against him. It is suggested on the Bo'ness thread he signed the night before. Red means "players not currently registered [as at Thu 18th Oct] are marked in red - please check if you have recently registered a player".


There are only 3 suspensions categories for EOSL clubs - the Scottish Cup, the South Challenge Cup, and everything else. (Bans for serious offences like violent conduct straight reds or spitting apply immediately over everything). Apparently that's to make it simpler for clubs, rather than having all the 'domestic' tournaments competition-specific. Few rows down p2 appears "67892 Alasdair Simpson, Haddington Athletic FC" and "41970 Shaun Hill, Haddington Athletic FC" with unspent 1-match bans accrued Oct 6th, ironically in a league game at Bo'ness, to serve Oct 20th.

EDIT: You can see all competition groups (p128) and specific competitions (p130) in Scotland at this link. Sensibly the South & East Shield is also outside of EOS's group.

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/3999/scottish-fa-jpp-18_19.pdf

[Rab B Nesbit]

28 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

FFS .

Is it just bad luck that already Dundonald then now Haddington + Bo'ness have fallen foul of the rules... or was this sort of situation happening regularly in the Juniors too? I do not recall many cases of clubs getting expelled but didn't follow it as closely. Or was it happening but often going undetected?
 

There is definitely a cup (actually trophy, below) and medals for both finalists in the Alex Jack Cup. There is a shield (under) in the South & East of Scotland Cup-Winners' Shield and mementos of some kind for the winners, not sure about losers as it's a one-off game. Camelon should get winners medals, IMO: while it's less important than the title or Scottish Cup slot, it's recognition.

 

I suppose the problem there is that, if Haddington or Broxburn went on to beat Camelon in the final, the latter could consider themself the victim of an injustice - similarly if the offences were simply allowed to cancel each other out? I don't see how you could put Broxburn into the final for happening to have lost other SF v Camelon: if they beat Camelon, they would be apoplectic?!


No-one plays ineligible players deliberately - no-one will be as disappointed as the 2 clubs (especially Bo'ness). Equally there are other losers, assuming the decision stands as there is always a right of appeal. Camelon win their first cup for a few years without the spectacle of a final or their share of the gate. Fans miss the occasion of a final as do interested neutrals. EOSFA miss out on good PR from a well-attended final and their share of the gate. Finally the late Sandy Jack's children haven't an opportunity to present the memorial trophy for their father at a final for the first time in its 30-year history.

Very disappointing situation .

I’d even started the programme .