Bo'ness United 2018/19

[GNU_Linux]

Not a town/village but in a similar vein the district of Possil in Glasgow has two teams (Ashfield & Glasgow Perthshire)

[FairWeatherFan]

42 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Outside the 7 cities - and not even including Stirling - the only places I can recall with 2 non-league clubs are... a number of towns in the north-east; Forfar (2 junior); Cumbernauld; Clydebank (2 junior); East Kilbride; Irvine (2 junior); and Dumfries (3 senior although that's due to 2 joining from Dumfries Amateur League when it folded).

So it's pretty uncommon.

There's a fair bit of overlap between Highland League area clubs and North Juniors in terms of small towns having Senior/Junior representation. Brechin City/Brechin Victoria, Montrose/Montrose Roselea, Forres Mechanics/Forres Thistle, Nairn County/Nairn St Trinian, Buckie Thistle/Buckie Rovers, Fraserburgh/Fraserburgh United, Keith/Islavale, Inverurie Locos/Colony Park.

[Auld Heid]

Ultimately, it's not down to commonality but viability.
On the face of it, there is no need for two 'non-league' sides in Bo'ness but it may satisfy a certain section of fans who would rather keep their money in the town.  Some would watch either team at Newtown and forego all but the bigger away games.  Whether that would lead to solvency for either side, who knows?
However, what happens if the side supposedly going 'junior' is then automatically swallowed up by the pyramid, making both sides senior.  That is where any sense ends.  
There should be discussions going on to affiliate the amateurs and turn them into the u-20's.

You also have a scenario the new team joins the east region tier 6. (As advertised)

If you guys don't finish T5 then you would be tier 7.

Would the new team then take precedence when hiring from the NPA.

[Bublue]

16 minutes ago, Jambo'ness said:

Ultimately, it's not down to commonality but viability.

On the face of it, there is no need for two 'non-league' sides in Bo'ness but it may satisfy a certain section of fans who would rather keep their money in the town.  Some would watch either team at Newtown and forego all but the bigger away games.  Whether that would lead to solvency for either side, who knows?

However, what happens if the side supposedly going 'junior' is then automatically swallowed up by the pyramid, making both sides senior.  That is where any sense ends.  

There should be discussions going on to affiliate the amateurs and turn them into the u-20's.

No amateur team will go under 20’s each year having to rebuild majority of team especially when BUCFC run teams from mini kickers to under 19’s. 

You then have amateur teams BUCFC amateurs and cadora hen the senior team who should be leading a charge into lowland league with any ambition. 

 

 

[Bublue]

16 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

You also have a scenario the new team joins the east region tier 6. (As advertised)

If you guys don't finish T5 then you would be tier 7.

Would the new team then take precedence when hiring from the NPA.

NPA have an agreement in place with bo’ness united senior they get preference on pitch on a Saturday afternoon at home but when away that let becomes Free to any team 

[gaz5]

NPA have an agreement in place with bo’ness united senior they get preference on pitch on a Saturday afternoon at home but when away that let becomes Free to any team 

If both teams are senior with the same registered home ground I believe that would be superceded by SFA rules, where the team highest placed in the structure take precedent for fixturing.

That's why Cumbernauld, for example, play home games on a Friday evening when Clyde are caste at home on the same weekend, despite Cumbernauld bring primary tenants with the pitch operator.

Same with Spartans/Edi City, Shire/Stenny, Stirling Uni/Falkirk over the last few seasons for more examples.

So it is plausible that in this scenario, BU not finishing top 5 and new BU being a teir above in the East Juniors, if they go in at the same level (which I think unlikely) that BU could lose Saturday precedent to Newton when the fixtures are caste.

[Burnie_man]

Doesn't everyone join a league at the bottom, therefore the Junior South division, which IF they managed to get into the Pyramid would be tier 7. They aren't going to go straight into Superleague.

[Bublue]

3 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

If both teams are senior with the same registered home ground I believe that would be superceded by SFA rules, where the team highest placed in the structure take precedent for fixturing.

That's why Cumbernauld, for example, play home games on a Friday evening when Clyde are caste at home on the same weekend, despite Cumbernauld bring primary tenants with the pitch operator.

Same with Spartans/Edi City, Shire/Stenny, Stirling Uni/Falkirk over the last few seasons for more examples.

So it is plausible that in this scenario, BU not finishing top 5 and new BU being a teir above in the East Juniors, if they go in at the same level (which I think unlikely) that BU could lose Saturday precedent to Newton when the fixtures are caste.

I would believe an agreement to be in place between all parties to make sure bo’ness united were shown respect due, unless bo’ness united have no desire to keep improving club going forward 

[Bublue]

3 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Doesn't everyone join a league at the bottom, therefore the Junior South division, which IF they managed to get into the Pyramid would be tier 7. They aren't going to go straight into Superleague.

Correct 

[LongTimeLurker]

...and with the games in hand a top 5 finish is far from mission impossible.

[gaz5]

Doesn't everyone join a league at the bottom, therefore the Junior South division, which IF they managed to get into the Pyramid would be tier 7. They aren't going to go straight into Superleague.

Yes, you're right, dunno why I assumed they would be at the top of the East region juniors. That was silly on my part.

I guess I was more getting at it not being as simple as having an agreement in place between the two teams or the facility owner. If they both ended up in the same system, then the team highest in that system would take precedent in the fixturing process of it is done as it is now in the Senior setup (including the examples noted).

Maybe the best recent example is Spartans. Their facility, shared with Edi City as guests. I'm sure Spartans would have wanted to retain all Saturday kick offs, but I think they now play Friday or Sunday if they are fixtured at home the same day as Edi City because Edi are in a higher league so take precedent over the Saturday fixture.

All I was really saying was I don't think it's as simple as the park operator having an agreement with teams that register their facility as a home ground. There are other factors worth being aware of.

[Burnie_man]

Yes, you're right, dunno why I assumed they would be at the top of the East region juniors. That was silly on my part.

I guess I was more getting at it not being as simple as having an agreement in place between the two teams or the facility owner. If they both ended up in the same system, then the team highest in that system would take precedent in the fixturing process of it is done as it is now in the Senior setup (including the examples noted).

Maybe the best recent example is Spartans. Their facility, shared with Edi City as guests. I'm sure Spartans would have wanted to retain all Saturday kick offs, but I think they now play Friday or Sunday if they are fixtured at home the same day as Edi City because Edi are in a higher league so take precedent over the Saturday fixture.

All I was really saying was I don't think it's as simple as the park operator having an agreement with teams that register their facility as a home ground. There are other factors worth being aware of.

Of course, what this would also highlight is the insanity of two teams from the same town playing at the same ground competiting in two seperate league systems where it's unlikely they'd ever play each other. Bonkers.

[gaz5]

Of course, what this would also highlight is the insanity of two teams from the same town playing at the same ground competiting in two seperate league systems where it's unlikely they'd ever play each other. Bonkers.

Quite. [emoji846]

I was covering my experience of being involved in the senior non league the last 4 years and what I've observed around ground sharing logistics.

The sanity of the proposal of having two teams in the same system in the same town at the same facility I'll leave to those with a skin in the game to discuss.

Maybe the BU's are just trying to get a Colt team in the system early, before SPFL3 gives us Rangers and Celtic Colts. [emoji39]

[Bublue]

3 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

9 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

Yes, you're right, dunno why I assumed they would be at the top of the East region juniors. That was silly on my part.

I guess I was more getting at it not being as simple as having an agreement in place between the two teams or the facility owner. If they both ended up in the same system, then the team highest in that system would take precedent in the fixturing process of it is done as it is now in the Senior setup (including the examples noted).

Maybe the best recent example is Spartans. Their facility, shared with Edi City as guests. I'm sure Spartans would have wanted to retain all Saturday kick offs, but I think they now play Friday or Sunday if they are fixtured at home the same day as Edi City because Edi are in a higher league so take precedent over the Saturday fixture.

All I was really saying was I don't think it's as simple as the park operator having an agreement with teams that register their facility as a home ground. There are other factors worth being aware of.

Of course, what this would also highlight is the insanity of two teams from the same town playing at the same ground competiting in two seperate league systems where it's unlikely they'd ever play each other. Bonkers.

How bonkers  ? The new facility is not just for bo’ness united seniors if it was there would actually be no new facility just a bit grass and a crumbling football ground with more cabins than sibcas lol 

[Burnie_man]

How bonkers  ? The new facility is not just for bo’ness united seniors if it was there would actually be no new facility just a bit grass and a crumbling football ground with more cabins than sibcas lol 

I think you've missed the point.

[lithgierose]

20 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

23 minutes ago, Bublue said:

How bonkers  ? The new facility is not just for bo’ness united seniors if it was there would actually be no new facility just a bit grass and a crumbling football ground with more cabins than sibcas lol 

I think you've missed the point.

dont spartans have more than one pitch though.would not just be 2 teams using newtown.would more than likely be used 7 days a week by different age range teams.every team having to rent the facilities.be five asides across the pitch probably to maximise the earnings.hope they invest it wisely as not to end up with a surface like broxburn.(has it been relaid)

Edited December 23, 2018 by lithgierose

[Auld Heid]

Doesn't everyone join a league at the bottom, therefore the Junior South division, which IF they managed to get into the Pyramid would be tier 7. They aren't going to go straight into Superleague.

Doesn't the ERSJFA advert suggest Tier 6 for new applicants. Nothing about starting at bottom or tier 7.

Hence my original point.

Indeed your own team returning to the juniors would also potentially benefit more than staying in EoS.

[Burnie_man]

5 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

Doesn't the ERSJFA advert suggest Tier 6 for new applicants. Nothing about starting at bottom or tier 7.

Hence my original point.

Indeed your own team returning to the juniors would also potentially benefit more than staying in EoS.
 

Unsurprisingly their advert makes no real sense and is light on detail, because there is no agreement as it stands. 

My club would not benefit in the slightest, no different from yours.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Burnie_man

[FairWeatherFan]

21 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

Doesn't the ERSJFA advert suggest Tier 6 for new applicants. Nothing about starting at bottom or tier 7.

Hence my original point.

Indeed your own team returning to the juniors would also potentially benefit more than staying in EoS.
 

The original advert made no mention of joining the SFA Pyramid. It was quickly taken down and replaced by the current one with the inclusion of the specific mention of Tier 6. Think it was added more as a response to the criticism the original advert.

[Standalone]

1 hour ago, Bublue said:

How bonkers  ? The new facility is not just for bo’ness united seniors if it was there would actually be no new facility just a bit grass and a crumbling football ground with more cabins than sibcas lol 

Had it not been for committee members of Bo'ness  United FC. raising money, improving and maintaining it over the last seventy odd years, there would be no Newtown Park to talk about today. That should never be forgotten.