Bo'ness United 2018/19

[Bublue]

1 hour ago, Bo'ness United said:

Just a thought...  if one of the amateur teams was to step up and call themselves Bo'ness United and play in the Junior's.... would they take priority at Newtown ?

 

No .. Bo’ness united have been gauranteed Saturday afternoon slot when at home this has been in place since start. 

Deanburn Dave says about more teams the better I think more teams with bo’ness links the better 

[Jambo'ness]

There is nothing wrong with having as many teams as can be filled in the town.  However, the problems come with status.  In an ideal world, United would be top side and have an under-20's running as well, then the community club age groups should follow.  Simple.

It's when you get a former amateur team wanting to turn junior that the problems start.  As I've stated before, if the junior game is to be swallowed up by the pyramid, sooner or later, how can Bo'ness realistically support two senior sides.  By support I don't just mean at the gate but in all aspects of fundraising.  Splitting resources is not going to work. 

We are United for a reason and that should be remembered by those wishing to start up anew and perhaps by certain members of the committee also, who have at times had tenuous relationships with those, who in essence just want success for Bo'ness.

[Bublue]

3 hours ago, Jambo'ness said:

There is nothing wrong with having as many teams as can be filled in the town.  However, the problems come with status.  In an ideal world, United would be top side and have an under-20's running as well, then the community club age groups should follow.  Simple.

It's when you get a former amateur team wanting to turn junior that the problems start.  As I've stated before, if the junior game is to be swallowed up by the pyramid, sooner or later, how can Bo'ness realistically support two senior sides.  By support I don't just mean at the gate but in all aspects of fundraising.  Splitting resources is not going to work. 

We are United for a reason and that should be remembered by those wishing to start up anew and perhaps by certain members of the committee also, who have at times had tenuous relationships with those, who in essence just want success for Bo'ness.

How many age groups does the community football club have At present does anybody know  what is relationship like between both groups

does bo’ness united havd the desire to run an under 20’s  

the junior league will join pyramid system but what effect will that have on any potential junior team and senior team   None really different pathways surely 

I can’t speak for committee of bo’ness and relationships with others but more bo’ness teams pulling together is better than one now that is a united set up 

[Burnie_man]

If the plan is to field a Bo'ness Juniors team that is insane. Junior football wont exist in a year or two's time, and as such Bo'ness will have two clubs in the same league set-up chasing the same money and fans. Crazy.

[John S]

5 hours ago, Jambo'ness said:

There is nothing wrong with having as many teams as can be filled in the town.  However, the problems come with status.  In an ideal world, United would be top side and have an under-20's running as well, then the community club age groups should follow.  Simple.

It's when you get a former amateur team wanting to turn junior that the problems start.  As I've stated before, if the junior game is to be swallowed up by the pyramid, sooner or later, how can Bo'ness realistically support two senior sides.  By support I don't just mean at the gate but in all aspects of fundraising.  Splitting resources is not going to work. 

We are United for a reason and that should be remembered by those wishing to start up anew and perhaps by certain members of the committee also, who have at times had tenuous relationships with those, who in essence just want success for Bo'ness.

Good post that sums things up. Two semi-professional teams trying to raise money in one town doesn't make any sense to me. However it's all just rumour at this time and we will have to wait and see.

[Auld Heid]

2 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

If the plan is to field a Bo'ness Juniors team that is insane. Junior football wont exist in a year or two's time, and as such Bo'ness will have two clubs in the same league set-up chasing the same money and fans. Crazy.

Totally agree with this - however your post is just a narrower view on what I have previously aluded to.  Scotland has too many teams fighting for a share of a small population pot and limited finances - a view which was lambasted on the pyramid thread ("there will be as many teams as players willing to play")

The whole pyramid system (to me) seems to be leagues and teams (and ERSJFA) making up things as they go along.  Teams joined the EoS for no other reason than in many cases because they could. 

Yet many including current teams won't be licensed anytime soon - a proper pyramid won't work without agreed rules & regulations in place first - a flaw  highlighted in that quite possibly the team winning the EoS may not gain promotion but a team who didn't does.

[Burnie_man]

26 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

Totally agree with this - however your post is just a narrower view on what I have previously aluded to.  Scotland has too many teams fighting for a share of a small population pot and limited finances - a view which was lambasted on the pyramid thread ("there will be as many teams as players willing to play")

The whole pyramid system (to me) seems to be leagues and teams (and ERSJFA) making up things as they go along.  Teams joined the EoS for no other reason than in many cases because they could. 

Yet many including current teams won't be licensed anytime soon - a proper pyramid won't work without agreed rules & regulations in place first - a flaw  highlighted in that quite possibly the team winning the EoS may not gain promotion but a team who didn't does.

I don’t think this underlines the fact that there are too many teams, and I agree with the view that there will be as many teams in the Pyramid as the system allows with everyone finding their natural level. However we’re a long way from that as it currently stands, it’s a bit of a mess as the SFA fail to comprehend the issues involved.

 

[Auld Heid]

I don’t think this underlines the fact that there are too many teams, and I agree with the view that there will be as many teams in the Pyramid as the system allows with everyone finding their natural level. However we’re a long way from that as it currently stands, it’s a bit of a mess as the SFA fail to comprehend the issues involved.
 

So if I set up another EoS or junior team in Blackburn that's ok?

When does it become unrealistic?

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, Auld Heid said:

So if I set up another EoS or junior team in Blackburn that's ok?

When does it become unrealistic?

The point being of course that in a fully functioning Pyramid, that new team would start at something like tier 10 or 11, and therefore basically amateur level and work their way up if capable. Blackburn have had amateur teams in the past (even played games on the 3G as part of the CC before folding last year) as have Bo'ness and Linlithgow, operating at a completely different level and a completely different cost structure. They weren't rivals.

Dropping a new team into what we have currently, at basically the same level, would be completely daft.

 

[Auld Heid]

8 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

The point being of course that in a fully functioning Pyramid, that new team would start at something like tier 10 or 11, and therefore basically amateur level and work their way up if capable. Blackburn have had amateur teams in the past (even played games on the 3G as part of the CC before folding last year) as have Bo'ness and Linlithgow, operating at a completely different level and a completely different cost structure. They weren't rivals.

Dropping a new team into what we have currently, at basically the same level, would be completely daft.

 

I agree that's how it should be - but  what is effectively happened/happening now with Bo'ness - two teams potentially at similar levels purely by application fighting over the same pot of supporters/fans - that's wrong.

Tier 10 - 11 doesn't exist so teams are jumping creating  a bottleneck of teams at the same level (tier 6).  Yes they will all eventually rise/fall to the correct level - but what damage does that create whilst teams sort themselves out. 

That's why you require a robust application processes rather than just accepting teams - only Linlithgow had a licence of all the new teams joining the EoS and others have good intentions with some clubs making better progress than others towards  licensing (no licence = no progression = pyramid fails)

 

[Burnie_man]

I agree that's how it should be - but  what is effectively happened/happening now with Bo'ness - two teams potentially at similar levels purely by application fighting over the same pot of supporters/fans - that's wrong.

Tier 10 - 11 doesn't exist so teams are jumping creating  a bottleneck of teams at the same level (tier 6).  Yes they will all eventually rise/fall to the correct level - but what damage does that create whilst teams sort themselves out. 

That's why you require a robust application processes rather than just accepting teams - only Linlithgow had a licence of all the new teams joining the EoS and others have good intentions with some clubs making better progress than others towards  licensing (no licence = no progression = pyramid fails)

 

Not this old argument again.

 

Anyway I'll leave the Bo'ness guys to it.

[FuzzyBear]

14 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

I agree that's how it should be - but  what is effectively happened/happening now with Bo'ness - two teams potentially at similar levels purely by application fighting over the same pot of supporters/fans - that's wrong.

Tier 10 - 11 doesn't exist so teams are jumping creating  a bottleneck of teams at the same level (tier 6).  Yes they will all eventually rise/fall to the correct level - but what damage does that create whilst teams sort themselves out. 

That's why you require a robust application processes rather than just accepting teams - only Linlithgow had a licence of all the new teams joining the EoS and others have good intentions with some clubs making better progress than others towards  licensing (no licence = no progression = pyramid fails)

 

If Linlithgow Thistle change into Bo'ness United juniors how many fans do you think will swap to them from the current Bo'ness United. The answer is hee haw. These two sides will not be fighting over the same pot of supporters/fans.

[drs]

To get the funding for the new pitch at Dunipace they had to ensue that the club had an appropriate number of teams, amongst others they created a linked Am side - is this not more likely Linlithgow Thistle moving to Newton to become the Bo'ness Am side in relation to clubs?

Edited January 11, 2019 by drs

[Bublue]

32 minutes ago, drs said:

To get the funding for the new pitch at Dunipace they had to ensue that the club had an appropriate number of teams, amongst others they created a linked Am side - is this not more likely Linlithgow Thistle moving to Newton to become the Bo'ness Am side in relation to clubs?

Dunipace have more joined up thinking than bo’ness at moment what I know is there’s the community club with community amateur team and bu who are senior team thistle proposal is to be junior team 

for astro majority of time be used by the kids with bu having usual Saturday slot when at home. Bug free to use by anyone outwith that time so make sense to gave s bo’ness team using it surely 

[lithgierose]

Dunipace have more joined up thinking than bo’ness at moment what I know is there’s the community club with community amateur team and bu who are senior team thistle proposal is to be junior team 
for astro majority of time be used by the kids with bu having usual Saturday slot when at home. Bug free to use by anyone outwith that time so make sense to gave s bo’ness team using it surely 

? Have United been involved with the community club in helping with funding of the new development.or do they think they are just going to jump in.because they have been there for so long.serious question,how have they helped with fund raising etc.

[gaz5]

To get the funding for the new pitch at Dunipace they had to ensue that the club had an appropriate number of teams, amongst others they created a linked Am side - is this not more likely Linlithgow Thistle moving to Newton to become the Bo'ness Am side in relation to clubs?

Not sure Dunipace "had" to have an Amateur team, more they wanted one as part of their structure to give kids coming out of the youth setup another place to go if not ready for the Senior side and as another feeder for said senior team. Essentially have as many pathways as possible to keep people involved in the game. Have just started an over 35's and girls section for similar reasons.

The youth setup was an integral part of gaining the funding, but that was always something Dunipace were driving towards as a setup. Had youth teams as far back as I was a player in the early 2000's which has steadily grown, particularly the last 10 years or so. So they were not brought in just to get the funding and then run essentially separately. There's no separation within the club, all the teams run under the same charter, with the same executive committee and the same policies and processes, from the little uns right up to the first team. More efficient as there's no duplication of people running two separate "clubs".

Not having any artificial divide between senior team and youth teams and running as one community club really is the way forward in my opinion, it works brilliantly at Dunipace with everyone a part of the same thing, driving in the same direction, with a lot of good people doing great work across the whole club.

The structure is up on the website (minus the new girls and over 35's which haven't been added yet) with all the policies and procedures (club info and programmes section), for anyone interested. Not all teams are currently populated, that's something being worked on, there's a wee gap between under 15's and the development team.

High level structure looks like the below, CEC run the club top to bottom with the football operation jointly the CEC and First Team Manager.

[Auld Heid]

3 hours ago, FuzzyBear said:

If Linlithgow Thistle change into Bo'ness United juniors how many fans do you think will swap to them from the current Bo'ness United. The answer is hee haw. These two sides will not be fighting over the same pot of supporters/fans.

You miss the point - the mere fact there is competition puts strain on resources.   People may also stop travelling as they can watch a "Bo'ness Utd" at Newtown Park every week.  

As with any new team - they will look to build their standing in the local community.  Knowing the guy running Linlithgow Amateurs he won't be shy in promoting his team.  A job he will do very effectively (they already have loads of local sponsors who don't sponsor the Rose or Bo'ness)

[FuzzyBear]

56 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

You miss the point - the mere fact there is competition puts strain on resources.   People may also stop travelling as they can watch a "Bo'ness Utd" at Newtown Park every week.  

As with any new team - they will look to build their standing in the local community.  Knowing the guy running Linlithgow Amateurs he won't be shy in promoting his team.  A job he will do very effectively (they already have loads of local sponsors who don't sponsor the Rose or Bo'ness)

I don't miss the point at all. That part of your post was nonsense.

If Bo'ness amateurs became Linlithgow juniors who do you know that would watch them rather than the Rose - be specific.

[drs]

34 minutes ago, FuzzyBear said:

I don't miss the point at all. That part of your post was nonsense.

If Bo'ness amateurs became Linlithgow juniors who do you know that would watch them rather than the Rose - be specific.

You have to remember that the Wee Rose arent his team - he'll always choose to be staunch at Ibrox if they are at home even when the Wee Rose are playing at Prestonfield,  he's used to supporting many teams.

Edited January 11, 2019 by drs

[Bublue]

2 hours ago, Auld Heid said:

You miss the point - the mere fact there is competition puts strain on resources.   People may also stop travelling as they can watch a "Bo'ness Utd" at Newtown Park every week.  

As with any new team - they will look to build their standing in the local community.  Knowing the guy running Linlithgow Amateurs he won't be shy in promoting his team.  A job he will do very effectively (they already have loads of local sponsors who don't sponsor the Rose or Bo'ness)

Linlithgow thistle it is we’re talking about are a stand alone team mainly made up of bo’ness lads the guy running them is a bo’ness man 

if you support bu going away your paying the opposition not BU in present format and if you support BU you go to BU game 

if he is good at getting sponsors is Bu no better tapping into that to help them cause let’s be honest there not good at it