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Promotion / relegation

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44 minutes ago, stanley said:

I agree that it's a bad system and I'd have one automatic relegation spot from League Two.

I don't think, however, promotion to the SPFL has any  real relevance to relegation from the LL.

But it does....

every league above the LL and SPFL 2 has the bottom club relegated with at least a play off for the 2nd bottom club.The LL as it is has that similar format just now. 

It's The HFL that is way lopsided now.Thats where I think the problem lies.

Why would the LL clubs  at present vote for 2 clubs to be automatically relegated when there's a chance of that happening at present?

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59 minutes ago, Ton Up said:

All the risk is with Lowland league clubs at the moment. If The Highland League changes and Automatic relegation from League 2 happens then more relegation from LL should occur.

Exactly this. As things stand the least likely to concede are the SPFL. The best chance of achieving sensible ‘ventilation’ all the way through is for the LL to have the EoS behind them pushing for automatic relegation for club 42 first to then allow the rest to happen. 

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This is where the SFA has to play it's role as an independent arbiter. Get everyone to discuss their terms and work on a compromise.

Still don't think any change will occur in the Club 42 playoff until the SPFL get their new TV deal sorted.

 

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1 hour ago, newcastle broon said:

But it does....

every league above the LL and SPFL 2 has the bottom club relegated with at least a play off for the 2nd bottom club.The LL as it is has that similar format just now. 

It's The HFL that is way lopsided now.Thats where I think the problem lies.

Why would the LL clubs  at present vote for 2 clubs to be automatically relegated when there's a chance of that happening at present?

It falls between the 2 - it's got the auto relegation but not the playoff (albeit it's also got 16 teams not 10).

If you get a Cove up/Cowden down situation 2 go down ; equally, the opposite means 0.

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I think there's a chance of automatic relegation from League 2 coming in when 3 or 4 League 2 sides get relegated and can't get back up. League 2 sides will then start to think that could be us we need a better chance of getting back up if the unthinkable happens. Of course that amount being relegated could take some time.

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6 hours ago, heedthebaa said:

Worried ??

About what 

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Just now, stulch said:

Only one and counting so far...

That's why it was important for Cove to win this year. All the moves in Tier 6 is nice from the big picture pyramid point of view, but means nothing to an SPFL club. Their worst 2 years running got the better of both of the Highland and Lowland leagues.

When the HL/LL champion wins again it'll likely be impetus for change, but right now the SPFL can win an argument by saying the lower leagues aren't good enough for automatic promotion. Hopefully we'll only have to wait a year.

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Automatic relegation from SPFL 2 will come when the pyramid below is functioning correctly. Get the West sorted and all Lowland areas are good.
The Highland league for me is a massive looming issue though. There needs a correct structure below and a league of 16 mirroring the LL.
It's also not great that an Angus club going down to the HL will more likely than not have more travelling than when in the National SPFL.

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My understanding is that this years playoff for promotion to the LL was the first. So before this season there was no requirement for anymore than 1 up 1 down 

Next season, with a large amount of good non licensed teams, there is no guarantee that we will get 2 teams qualified  to come up

However going forward there is no sensible reason to continue with 1 up 1 down and an increase must be made  

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The good non licensed teams will be hoping to be licensed by the time the play-offs come around - that's part of the reason why they made the move.

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31 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

The good non licensed teams will be hoping to be licensed by the time the play-offs come around - that's part of the reason why they made the move.

Linlithgow Rose are already licensed, LTHV's license is either already issued or about to be issued. I'd be highly surprised if the other big junior teams coming over (like Bo'ness, Bonnyrigg Rose, Dundonald Bluebell etc.) will have any issues getting their license. They'll be licensed by April 2019, I'd dare to put money on that.

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One extra team down from the LL, and promotion for the winner of the LL/HL playoff is all that is needed for now. Hopefully a strong WOSL from 2019-20, and the pyramid will finally be strong and healthy. 

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So what was the decision at the LL AGM, more relegation/promotion spots or not?

As others have said, LTHV and Linlithgow are already Licenced and both will be in the running at the top end of whatever EoS section(s) they are in, and there’s a number of new members from the top end of the Junior game who won’t take too much to become Licenced and will also challenge in their sections, so I’m fairly sure you’ll see at least 2 of the 3 section winners fully Licenced to be eligible for promotion and probably all 3, and a good chance that the SoS winners will be also.

So two down from LL should be a given surely?

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3 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

So what was the decision at the LL AGM, more relegation/promotion spots or not?

As others have said, LTHV and Linlithgow are already Licenced and both will be in the running at the top end of whatever EoS section(s) they are in, and there’s a number of new members from the top end of the Junior game who won’t take too much to become Licenced and will also challenge in their sections, so I’m fairly sure you’ll see at least 2 of the 3 section winners fully Licenced to be eligible for promotion and probably all 3, and a good chance that the SoS winners will be also.

So two down from LL should be a given surely?

 I Understand there was no vote, and they are waiting until after the EoS AGM before anything else is said.

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6 minutes ago, Baxter's Nutmeg said:

 I Understand there was no vote, and they are waiting until after the EoS AGM before anything else is said.

Mucho gracias

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After seeing the leagues my personal opinion would be 2 relegations from LL, with 2nd bottom only retaining their place if the LL champions defeat a SPFL 2 team that would drop into the playoffs.

 

4 winners of EoS ans SoS Leagues go in a hat and have a 2 leg play-off to go up.

 

Seems pretty reasonable to me

 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Pie and Bovril mobile app

 

 

 

 

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On 6/5/2018 at 18:53, newcastle broon said:

I don't think there's any ill feeling at all (wherever you got that from) from LL clubs towards all these new clubs coming in.

 

On 6/5/2018 at 18:59, Rab B Nesbit said:

I don’t think there is any I’ll feeling it’s great to finally see them make the move up.  

I don't think there's much ill feeling, the seniors have been very, very welcoming to us ex-Juniors, but there's a little of the you-made-your-bed attitude like this: 

1 hour ago, selfassemblyshire said:

4 winners of EoS ans SoS Leagues go in a hat and have a 2 leg play-off to go up.

I'm not sure that'll work, the EoS will be having a play-off to find a league champion so it would be as well working with that as a starting point.

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On 06/06/2018 at 12:51, Gogs Grog said:

Automatic relegation from SPFL 2 will come when the pyramid below is functioning correctly. Get the West sorted and all Lowland areas are good.
The Highland league for me is a massive looming issue though. There needs a correct structure below and a league of 16 mirroring the LL.
It's also not great that an Angus club going down to the HL will more likely than not have more travelling than when in the National SPFL.

Maybe so but come the end of the year the transport links to the north east will be bang on.

The new AWPR dual carriageway will easily take half an hour of travel time to Aberdeenshire/Moray.

With dual carriageway improvements to the A9 and A96 travelling north is no longer any problem.

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On 05/06/2018 at 15:53, HTG said:

I'm just warming up lol.  Seriously though, one down from 16 isn't reasonable going forward. The West Juniors were at the other end of the sensible line with 2 down and a play off for 3rd bottom in a 12 team league. 

The East Superleague operated 2 down and a play off with 16 in the top flight and that felt ok - apart from 2016/17 when we were awfy close to it! 

Obviously there is a risk that everyone looks after themselves but now that the pyramid is finally starting to expand significantly and the prospect of decent numbers of licenced clubs grows, it'd be great to see the nerves at top and bottom. 

Clubs getting promoted from E.O.S. to LL.must be licenced. You could find play off winners dont have theirs.

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