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Promotion / relegation

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2 hours ago, newcastle broon said:

You'e got a foot in the door and the ink from yer application is barely dry and yer dictating awready :thumsup2

Got to agree though the leagues have to open up a bit so teams can find levels asap.

As Baxter says Turkey's aint gonnae vote for Christmas though,but the LL does have a new committee.

Interesting times ahead.

much less chance with new committee

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2 hours ago, newcastle broon said:

You'e got a foot in the door and the ink from yer application is barely dry and yer dictating awready :thumsup2

Got to agree though the leagues have to open up a bit so teams can find levels asap.

As Baxter says Turkey's aint gonnae vote for Christmas though,but the LL does have a new committee.

Interesting times ahead.

I'm just warming up lol.  Seriously though, one down from 16 isn't reasonable going forward. The West Juniors were at the other end of the sensible line with 2 down and a play off for 3rd bottom in a 12 team league. 

The East Superleague operated 2 down and a play off with 16 in the top flight and that felt ok - apart from 2016/17 when we were awfy close to it! 

Obviously there is a risk that everyone looks after themselves but now that the pyramid is finally starting to expand significantly and the prospect of decent numbers of licenced clubs grows, it'd be great to see the nerves at top and bottom. 

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12 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

Some canny days oot to be had heed :thumsup2

Too true, I’ll have to ask her nicely though :lol:

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The bottom team from any league should always be  Relegated 

 

 

 

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The east juniors have played their part, now it’s up to LL and higher to play theirs 

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38 minutes ago, heedthebaa said:

The east juniors have played their part, now it’s up to LL and higher to play theirs 

Can' think of any reason why the ll won't jump to the junior's demands...2 seasons after the junior's did nothing but mock and ridicule the formation of the lowland league....

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2 minutes ago, magoo said:

Can' think of any reason why the ll won't jump to the junior's demands...2 seasons after the junior's did nothing but mock and ridicule the formation of the lowland league....

Worried ??

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I would For this season write into the rules that the number of relegation places depending on license holders at the 31st March cut off.

If the 3 winners of the conferences are licensed and also the winner of the sos is licensed then 2 go up and 2 come down after playoffs between eos winners and sos.

If only one or two are licensed from the eos and sos winners are not then I would have one go up and they play off to see who gets the spot.

if for next season the winners of both an eos and wos are licensed then both go up with second in both (if licensed) playing off for the 3rd spot. There should be no reprieve for any relegated clubs. Focus on the positives of a chance of promotion. This could be the norm going forward as licenses are achieved and gives the winner the reward and an equal chance for both runners up.

Just got to work towards an automatic relegation for club 42 in the future from the spfl and the focus being purely on the winner takes all playoffs between LL and HL. Could even be played at a senior ground in Dundee/fife/West Lothian depending on where the champions are from. Would be a great occasion with plenty drama.

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I would hope that the Lowland League will be more open to change.  They will want automatic relegation from League Two and they should lead by example by opening their league up.  The situation has changed now and there are a number of clubs in the EoS who are likely to be superior to some of the lower LL clubs and would bring a lot to the league.  It is in their interests to have clubs with more potential in their league.  It will also be extremely difficult for some of the LL clubs to ever get promoted back up with only one automatic relegation spot.

The EoS have shown that they can accommodate ex-junior clubs who were only separated form the system because of the historic split in non-league Scottish football.  I hope the LL can do the same.  I think that one relegation spot from a league of 16 is never enough but it was understandable prior to now due to the lack of licensed clubs in tier six.  That should change over the course of the next year.

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23 minutes ago, stanley said:

I would hope that the Lowland League will be more open to change.  They will want automatic relegation from League Two and they should lead by example by opening their league up.  The situation has changed now and there are a number of clubs in the EoS who are likely to be superior to some of the lower LL clubs and would bring a lot to the league.  It is in their interests to have clubs with more potential in their league.  It will also be extremely difficult for some of the LL clubs to ever get promoted back up with only one automatic relegation spot.

The EoS have shown that they can accommodate ex-junior clubs who were only separated form the system because of the historic split in non-league Scottish football.  I hope the LL can do the same.  I think that one relegation spot from a league of 16 is never enough but it was understandable prior to now due to the lack of licensed clubs in tier six.  That should change over the course of the next year.

Do you honestly think opening up the LL by adding relegation places the SPFL are gonnae  do likewise ?

The LL  is perfectly enhanced and competitive as it is. Yes there are eosfl clubs who are superior or will be but I doubt the LL committee will do anything unless the SPFL propose the move 1st.

I've already stated it be good move to have 2 up 2 doon and get things moving asap but no convinced it'll happen overnight.

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15 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

Do you honestly think opening up the LL by adding relegation places the SPFL are gonnae  do likewise ?

The LL  is perfectly enhanced and competitive as it is. Yes there are eosfl clubs who are superior or will be but I doubt the LL committee will do anything unless the SPFL propose the move 1st.

I've already stated it be good move to have 2 up 2 doon and get things moving asap but no convinced it'll happen overnight.

I don't think it will have any effect at all on the SPFL.  My point is simply if they are to argue strongly in favour of automatic relegation from the SPFL, they'd look better as an organisation that has more automatic relegation spots from their own league.  It won't help them get an automatic promotion spot to the SPFL but it will at least show that they are willing to put the interests of football as a whole ahead of their own (which is something often very absent from Scottish football which is generally ruled by self-interest).

Equally, I've seen people argue that the LL won't do anything with automatic relegation to EoS/SoS until the SPFL begins automatic relegation (or at least said there is some connection between the two).  I don't see the relevance in that.  Relegation from the SPFL doesn't affect relegation from the Lowland League.

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I understand if there is some ill-feeling of LL clubs towards the juniors. They didn't take part first and now they are asked to open up relegation to get these sides promoted. But the only way to sort the pyramid out is by opening up the system and get over the differences, as hard as it might be. Also, it's important to remember that the SJFA refused to engage with the pyramid and threatened clubs in various way, including by saying that if they were to apply for the LL and failed, they wouldn't be let back into the juniors. Some clubs might have wanted to join the pyramid before but were put off by that. The scaremongering clearly worked and it took a jump into the unknown for Kelty to give others the confidence they can do this as well.

Ultimately, a stronger LL with the top junior sides will make automatic relegation from the SPFL more likely. Only 1 relegation from 16 clubs is just not enough, 2up/2down for now seems fair and 3up/3down seems fair for if/when a WoSFL gets founded.

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34 minutes ago, Marten said:

I understand if there is some ill-feeling of LL clubs towards the juniors. They didn't take part first and now they are asked to open up relegation to get these sides promoted. But the only way to sort the pyramid out is by opening up the system and get over the differences, as hard as it might be. Also, it's important to remember that the SJFA refused to engage with the pyramid and threatened clubs in various way, including by saying that if they were to apply for the LL and failed, they wouldn't be let back into the juniors. Some clubs might have wanted to join the pyramid before but were put off by that. The scaremongering clearly worked and it took a jump into the unknown for Kelty to give others the confidence they can do this as well.

Ultimately, a stronger LL with the top junior sides will make automatic relegation from the SPFL more likely. Only 1 relegation from 16 clubs is just not enough, 2up/2down for now seems fair and 3up/3down seems fair for if/when a WoSFL gets founded.

I don't think there's any ill feeling at all (wherever you got that from) from LL clubs towards all these new clubs coming in.

What I do think being missed out here is the fact that all of the LL are licensed for the forseeable future. 

I must admit to knowing next to hee haw regarding the  new clubs but there might be a % that are nowhere near a license (as yet). 

So basically any of the LL getting relegated I don't think would be too alarmed regarding the Scottish cup etc.

Edit: for any of these new clubs coming into the Scottish cup there's great excitement and anticipation leading up to and  being in the draw wi the hopes of getting by a few rounds and a shot at the big guns.

Welcome aboard it's for the good of the game and shouldve happened years ago.

Edited by newcastle broon

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I don’t think there is any I’ll feeling it’s great to finally see them make the move up. 

Curently we have a situation where club 42 might go down. While the bottom LL side definitely goes down and the 2nd bottom possibly. 

In the Highland League there is no relegation. 

I’d say the LL has conceded enough. It’s time for them SPFL to open the door and I’m quite sure then that the EoS sides would get their promotion places. :) 

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3 minutes ago, Rab B Nesbit said:

I don’t think there is any I’ll feeling it’s great to finally see them make the move up. 

Curently we have a situation where club 42 might go down. While the bottom LL side definitely goes down and the 2nd bottom possibly. 

In the Highland League there is no relegation. 

I’d say the LL has conceded enough. It’s time for them SPFL to open the door and I’m quite sure then that the EoS sides would get their promotion places. :) 

Why would the SPFL opening the door make the LL more likely to increase the number of relegation spots?  I think the main thing that will make the SPFL introduce automatic relegation is the Lowland League becoming stronger and having more clubs in it capable of making the step up to League Two.  I favour automatic relegation right now but I would say there are a very limited number of LL clubs likely to be capable of sustaining a place in the SPFL currently and that makes it harder for the LL to argue for automatic relegation.

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4 minutes ago, Rab B Nesbit said:

I don’t think there is any I’ll feeling it’s great to finally see them make the move up. 

Curently we have a situation where club 42 might go down. While the bottom LL side definitely goes down and the 2nd bottom possibly. 

In the Highland League there is no relegation. 

I’d say the LL has conceded enough. It’s time for them SPFL to open the door and I’m quite sure then that the EoS sides would get their promotion places. :) 

Maybe ill-feeling wasn't the right way to put it, but 1 relegation spot out of 16 is still highly unreasonable. Yes, automatic relegation from the SPFL is needed too and the HL should open up to relegation as well, but with the amount of strong sides now coming in below the LL, there is simply not any justification for just 1 relegation spot. Automatic relegation from the SPFL is going to be made more likely if the LL actually contained the strongest non-league sides south of the Tay, including ex-juniors. Allowing more relegation gives the LL better ammunition to lobby for better arrangements with the SPFL.

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19 minutes ago, stanley said:

Why would the SPFL opening the door make the LL more likely to increase the number of relegation spots?  I think the main thing that will make the SPFL introduce automatic relegation is the Lowland League becoming stronger and having more clubs in it capable of making the step up to League Two.  I favour automatic relegation right now but I would say there are a very limited number of LL clubs likely to be capable of sustaining a place in the SPFL currently and that makes it harder for the LL to argue for automatic relegation.

I would say there's 4 (now 5) LL clubs more than capable of competing at SPFL level just now. 

It's just a crap system having to play 2 very tough ties while the SPFL side are rested.

The SPFL would need to change the relegation format completely for the LL to agree extra relegation places imo.

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Just now, newcastle broon said:

I would say there's 4 (now 5) LL clubs more than capable of competing at SPFL level just now. 

It's just a crap system having to play 2 very tough ties while the SPFL side are rested.

The SPFL would need to change the relegation format completely for the LL to agree extra relegation places imo.

I agree that it's a bad system and I'd have one automatic relegation spot from League Two.

I don't think, however, promotion to the SPFL has any  real relevance to relegation from the LL.

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All the risk is with Lowland league clubs at the moment. If The Highland League changes and Automatic relegation from League 2 happens then more relegation from LL should occur.

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