League Cup 2018/19 Group G

[Dumfries Boy(new acc)]

4 minutes ago, jagfox99 said:

Easy win for Well against the Western Borderers. Nice to see Sammon amongst the goals.

Why were there no away fans? Were they stuck in a corner of the Main Stand?

We were in the corner of main stand, decent view. 447 of us

[Sloop John B]

1 hour ago, 19QOS19 said:

I suppose this sums up football and a manager will never please everyone. Had we lined up like we finished I would have been absolutely fizzing after the game. I agree we got mauled through the middle in the first half and something needed changing but even so we created far more in the first half. We created one chance in the second. We tightened up in the 2nd but apart from a cracking save we never at any point looked like scoring. I'm definitely in the "Have a go!" camp when it comes to games against bigger sides. Especially tonight given we didn't have much to lose. Fair play to GN for having a go. I still think it would have been better putting Doyle in the middle in place of Jacobs. Find it pretty incredible Harkins is getting some stick. The guy was our best midfielder tonight and put in more challenges than our holding midfielder. It's harsh to expect him to do the dirty work then create something after it. I expect he's going to receive criticism throughout the season due to his style of play. He saunters through the game: if we're winning it appears he's cruising, if we're losing it could look like he isn't trying.

 

We were beaten by a better side tonight so can't have too many grudges (take note Clyde fans). Had we scored one of the 3 early chances it could have been a different outcome. Motherwell will likely be in the top half so we haven't disgraced ourselves tonight. We just need some depth and we might not be as bad as I had feared in the league. Was Semple's challenge that bad? From our end I thought it was a clear yellow but the fans seemed pretty upset. It wouldn't surprise me if it was a straight red challenge, the ref ballsed up plenty other decisions all night: booking Dykes for numerous attempts to win headers, allowing the Well GK to take the FK 15 yards further forward but making Marshall move the ball back 2 yards being the main highlights.

 

Good support from us tonight, just ashame we had nothing to cheer. Hopefully get off to a good start against Morton.

 

 

I mean I personally like having something left  over to push for if it a game is there to be chased though i suspect we had little left in the tank regardless considering playing 4 games in quick succession. 

Fortunately we aren't going to face a team with that level of quickness and quality on a counter attack but I guess it's partly  why Harkins isn't playing at a top level side, particularly in the first half he tried passes and moves that nobody else would but against a team that will be in your face and go back to front quickly, he can leave you exposed if he's in centre mid and playing deeper than he'd like. He still has immense quality and should be fine though, it's a better issue to have over watching a John Rankin exhibition of pointing, slide tackle passes and being so late to reacting to the play that the game had finished for 20 minutes by the time he caught up.

I thought it was a  red, certainly looked incredibly clumsy and high.

[David W]

Stranraer will, perhaps rightly, point to their efforts of the weekend as leaving them a touch off the pace. We also undeniably benefited from winning the coin toss and playing the first half with a low-lying sun that partly contributed to a couple of the goals. Still, Lennon/Moore got their set-up spot on. We played a tight midfield quartet with Rankin on the left, and McStay on the right, Nicoll/Grant providing the very defensive looking central pairing. Love and Goodwillie up front, with the wider midfielders and full-backs detailed with getting them the ball. The first goal saw a beautifully floated pass from deep by Stewart set Goodwillie through on goal and although he didn't catch his shot cleanly, it trundled in off the post. Nicoll then somehow completely missed as he swung at a knock-on by McNiff 6 yards out, whilst McNiff also had a header that was well stopped by Stranraer's Currie.

The second goal was the same as umpteen that we've seen from Goodwillie, Rankin playing the well-timed through ball to set him away having pulled off the back of a centre half. Thumped across the 'keeper into the corner. We then added a third from a really softly awarded free-kick, McNiff beating Currie to the McStay's cross the head into the empty net. Stranraer had one header cleared of the line by Grant but didn't bother us at all really.

At half-time Stranraer made three changes and didn't really improve. Got a goal from a loose ball after a corner was cleared initially. Both Nicoll and Goodwillie (who should have passed to McStay) hit the woodwork. A number of other breaks messed up by a poor final pass. 

We heard plenty pre-match about Layne but McNiff/Rumsby didn't give him a second on the ball and they were helped by the midfield in front. Rumsby has probably played himself into a start for Saturday (particularly as I'd imagine Cogill will replace Stewart), he didn't do much wrong at all. McNiff was as close to imperious as he'll get. Cuddihy always worth a place in the team even if I'd prefer Duffie at right-back. Stewart cruised it as usual but very unlucky to miss Saturday (especially given the "tackle" on McStay that MacDonald inexplicably escaped a booking for a minute before).

The midfield four were excellent. I'm not sure I'd play that selection in the first league game, but Stranraer didn't really get near the edge of our box. Rankin looked like he'll fit in, some good passing and protected Stewart well. Nicoll and Grant regained possession time and time again. McStay the bit of quality and composure on the ball that we needed. Goodwillie the best player on the pitch as expected but rightly criticised by McStay/Lennon for not passing.

Tonight was the 8th time we've netted 3 goals since the middle of January. We've got a management pair who are streets ahead of anything we've had in years, and a squad that are another striker away from being very well balanced. I think we'll be alright this season.  Good to guarantee we won't finish bottom in the group as well.

Stranraer will be much better in their other matches I assume. Nowhere near good enough tonight, miles off the pace.

[Frankie S]

In contrast with a few of the opinions expressed so far, I didn’t think Motherwell were any great shakes, but they didn’t have to be. Comfortable win for them. Might have been different if Semple had scored that early header, as he should have done. Dobbie did well to carve out a couple of opportunities to shoot early on too, but his efforts never looked likely to beat the Motherwell keeper. After a flurry of chances in the first 10 minutes we resorted to just lashing the ball aimlessly forward for much of the rest of the half, bypassing the midfield, and invariably handing possession straight back to the opposition.

Not quite sure what it is about Queens and that man of many clubs, Conor Sammon, but he must wish he could play us every week. Utterly inept on the occasions I’ve seen him play for Hearts, and a figure of fun down Gorgie way, he looks like a world-beater against us. Probably more of an indictment of the Queens defence than a testament to Sammon.

Harkins is both brilliant and frustrating - supremely skilled, he strolls about at walking pace. Caught in possession a little too often in the first half, he was head and shoulders above the rest of the team in the second. Fancy him to do well for us in the Championship. Dobbie showed glimpses of quality too, but started wandering down  cul-de-sacs as the game wore on, trying to do too much himself.  Might have scored with that late header,  but 2-1 would have flattered us a bit. 

Todd played quite well again, was slightly surprised he was the first to be subbed. Dykes did ok in the air, winning a few aerial challenges (he seems to have improved in that department), though his knock downs rarely went to a Queens player.

Fordyce looked distinctly shaky, as did the full backs at times. I quite like the look of Semple, though he definitely didn’t ingratiate himself to the home support when he took Bowman out. I’ve seen Doyle twice now and I’m still not sure exactly what it is that he does, though he certainly does it enthusiastically. ‘Utility man’ I guess. Not convinced he’s all that much of a footballer, but he’s fit enough and looks busy. Jacobs was relatively ineffective, but I almost always think that. 

Our first XI looks like it’s capable of holding its own in the Championship (Dobbie and Harkins qualities alone should ensure that), but God knows what will happen when injuries and suspensions kick in. If getting out of the group stages of this competition is going to be the determining factor in releasing funds to bolster the squad, then let’s hope we progress. 

[Rjc-1988]

After a brief flurry at the start when we looked dangerous we completely lost our way and couldn't get any meaningful possession. For me GN played two players out of position - Doyle despite his endeavour isn't a midfield player either wide right or central. Dykes needs to play on shoulder of last defender not drifting back into midfield or wide right where he was deployed for entire second half. This left Dobbie ploughing a lone furrow up top - this tactic simply doesn't work for us as was proved time and time again last season.

Back 4 were given the run around all night despite the absence of Curtis Main.

Thankfully our goal difference didn't take a pasting so I would imagine that we should qualify.

Ball retention once again a huge problem against a decent Motherwell side. Overall a letdown for a very decent travelling support.

[steakpiegravy]

Agree with both Frankie and RJC with the possible exception that I thought Jacobs was OK in parts. But that was the problem with last night - if you had to rate the players almost all the key players had a decent spell and spells of being bloody awful. Really frustrating to watch.

[TeeMan]

Pretty much agree with the last couple of posts. Motherwell were simply that bit better in every department and we were probably lucky to get away with just losing two goals. There were a few positives, Semple didn't look too out of place and certainly looks like he'll be able to do job in the Championship, Todd continues to look good and Martin is looking sharper. The negatives: the midfield in the first half was being overrun even with Dykes dropping in to help and we have absolutely nothing off the bench.

[palmy_cammy]

In hindsight as a draw was enough we maybe should have played 4-5-1 and tried to park the bus.  The problem with that is none of our strikers are especially suited to the lone striker role, and we would likely have to drop one of Dobbie or Harkins to play that formation.

To be honest I can't imagine it would have made much difference.  It sounds like the better team with the better players won through, and would likely have done so regardless of how we lined up.  Let's just be thankful we did enough in the earlier games to hopefully progress (unlike last season), and hope we have a few additions for what will be another tough tie in the next round.

[Swello]

Wonder why there are no club highlights up - just the Goals with Lift Music? 

[Fae_the_'briggs]

My frustration with Harkins last night,  first half anyway,  stemmed from being caught in possession and several stray passes giving away possession.    He just looked a bit off the pace,  not alone in that  I should add, a few players took time to get going.  

Were we actually playing two up top in the first half?   It looked to me that Dobbie was up there but Dykes was sitting a bit deeper.  

I don't know if there is a problem with Stirling again,  he's done well in the games so far so can't understand him not starting last night.  Obviously Naysmith picks the team he thinks will do best against the opposition but IMO Stirling and Todd on the wings with Doyle and Harkins in the middle is a better set up.  I hope Stirling isn't on his way out on loan again,  but he's maybe not got the best attitude when being dropped. 

Hopefully we've done enough in the earlier games to progress,  but we have shown enough in games so far to suggest we may be decent at least when the league campaign gets going. 

[Archie McSquackle]

Give them a chance!

[Swello]

Just now, Archie McSquackle said:

Give them a chance!

Reason I ask is that they are usually up after midnight - not sure if the rules are different in the league cup..

[NM_1919]

My frustration with Harkins last night,  first half anyway,  stemmed from being caught in possession and several stray passes giving away possession.    He just looked a bit off the pace,  not alone in that  I should add, a few players took time to get going.  
Were we actually playing two up top in the first half?   It looked to me that Dobbie was up there but Dykes was sitting a bit deeper.  
I don't know if there is a problem with Stirling again,  he's done well in the games so far so can't understand him not starting last night.  Obviously Naysmith picks the team he thinks will do best against the opposition but IMO Stirling and Todd on the wings with Doyle and Harkins in the middle is a better set up.  I hope Stirling isn't on his way out on loan again,  but he's maybe not got the best attitude when being dropped. 
Hopefully we've done enough in the earlier games to progress,  but we have shown enough in games so far to suggest we may be decent at least when the league campaign gets going. 

Would hope it’s time now for Doyle to tuck into his natural full back position not centre mid. Wasn’t there last night but this is the scoreline I expected possibly more as we maybe getting above our station slightly after a decent pre season and start to cup without really playing anyone. Certainly not disheartened, Motherwell are a tough side to play against big physical can change there style from long balls or on the ground pretty well. I think they’ll be a top 6 side, and tbf the Stranraer result probably pissed them off and gave them a point to prove.

A few I have spoke to have said semple struggled, but it’s maybe a good thing a tough game like that coming now than in league. He now knows what it’s all about up here, probably thought it was a walk in park after first couple of games.

Hopefully we’ve done enough to get through, as we still desperately need 2/3 options. IMO a Centre Mid similar to Joe with a bit of legs can do a bit of everything, a Winger with pace and bit of trickery and a Striker to cover Dykes and Dobbie. Don’t think anybody will come unless we get through so fingers crossed.

[Skyline Drifter]

10 hours ago, Sloop John B said:

Semple mauling Bowman was probably the best thing he did up to that point. He got bullied by him and got Sammon into great positions. After that he started to look a lot more confident though the game was over.

I get that the depth isn’t there but playing a 4-4-2 against that Motherwell side was asking for trouble. Marshall was roasted time and again by Cadden and Tait and wasn’t getting much protection as Jacobs and Doyle  were initially on the other side covering  Mercer.  I appreciate that you want to have a go but when you are playing a better side away from home some sort of caution would be needed. We finally neutralised Motherwell when we had Doyle and Jacobs as a defensive pair but again the game was done by then and we created little.

That Mercer run that led to the great Carson save defied all sense and logic. I believe that he now owns  the soul of whoever he floored.

He gave the ball away leading to the second goal but some of those touches by Harkins were delicious. Shame we don’t get to play nonentities like Clyde every week.

 

24 minutes ago, Fae_the_'briggs said:

My frustration with Harkins last night,  first half anyway,  stemmed from being caught in possession and several stray passes giving away possession.    He just looked a bit off the pace,  not alone in that  I should add, a few players took time to get going.  

Were we actually playing two up top in the first half?   It looked to me that Dobbie was up there but Dykes was sitting a bit deeper.  

I don't know if there is a problem with Stirling again,  he's done well in the games so far so can't understand him not starting last night.  Obviously Naysmith picks the team he thinks will do best against the opposition but IMO Stirling and Todd on the wings with Doyle and Harkins in the middle is a better set up.  I hope Stirling isn't on his way out on loan again,  but he's maybe not got the best attitude when being dropped. 

Hopefully we've done enough in the earlier games to progress,  but we have shown enough in games so far to suggest we may be decent at least when the league campaign gets going. 

As someone said above, who would be a football manager. Here we have Sloop John B complaining that we were too positive and cavalier away to a Premier side whilst Fae the 'briggs complains we weren't positive enough!

I wasn't there so can't comment on the performance. I wasn't surprised Stirling was sacrificed to bring Jacobs back away to a good Premiership team though. I don't think it's an unreasonable change and even Stirling's biggest fans surely can't read anything ulterior into that? He's certainly not our best defensively. He was the first sub used when we changed a winger.

[Fae_the_'briggs]

I don't think I said we weren't positive enough,  I was questioning if we were really set up 442 as some have  suggested.  Of course no formation is rigid but I felt Dobbie looked more advanced and isolated at times, first half anyway.  He was also indicating that players should push out a bit rather than sitting too deep and allowing Motherwell so much space. 

[monthe blues]

9 hours ago, David W said:

Stranraer will, perhaps rightly, point to their efforts of the weekend as leaving them a touch off the pace. We also undeniably benefited from winning the coin toss and playing the first half with a low-lying sun that partly contributed to a couple of the goals. Still, Lennon/Moore got their set-up spot on. We played a tight midfield quartet with Rankin on the left, and McStay on the right, Nicoll/Grant providing the very defensive looking central pairing. Love and Goodwillie up front, with the wider midfielders and full-backs detailed with getting them the ball. The first goal saw a beautifully floated pass from deep by Stewart set Goodwillie through on goal and although he didn't catch his shot cleanly, it trundled in off the post. Nicoll then somehow completely missed as he swung at a knock-on by McNiff 6 yards out, whilst McNiff also had a header that was well stopped by Stranraer's Currie.

The second goal was the same as umpteen that we've seen from Goodwillie, Rankin playing the well-timed through ball to set him away having pulled off the back of a centre half. Thumped across the 'keeper into the corner. We then added a third from a really softly awarded free-kick, McNiff beating Currie to the McStay's cross the head into the empty net. Stranraer had one header cleared of the line by Grant but didn't bother us at all really.

At half-time Stranraer made three changes and didn't really improve. Got a goal from a loose ball after a corner was cleared initially. Both Nicoll and Goodwillie (who should have passed to McStay) hit the woodwork. A number of other breaks messed up by a poor final pass. 

We heard plenty pre-match about Layne but McNiff/Rumsby didn't give him a second on the ball and they were helped by the midfield in front. Rumsby has probably played himself into a start for Saturday (particularly as I'd imagine Cogill will replace Stewart), he didn't do much wrong at all. McNiff was as close to imperious as he'll get. Cuddihy always worth a place in the team even if I'd prefer Duffie at right-back. Stewart cruised it as usual but very unlucky to miss Saturday (especially given the "tackle" on McStay that MacDonald inexplicably escaped a booking for a minute before).

The midfield four were excellent. I'm not sure I'd play that selection in the first league game, but Stranraer didn't really get near the edge of our box. Rankin looked like he'll fit in, some good passing and protected Stewart well. Nicoll and Grant regained possession time and time again. McStay the bit of quality and composure on the ball that we needed. Goodwillie the best player on the pitch as expected but rightly criticised by McStay/Lennon for not passing.

Tonight was the 8th time we've netted 3 goals since the middle of January. We've got a management pair who are streets ahead of anything we've had in years, and a squad that are another striker away from being very well balanced. I think we'll be alright this season.  Good to guarantee we won't finish bottom in the group as well.

Stranraer will be much better in their other matches I assume. Nowhere near good enough tonight, miles off the pace.

Clyde by far the better team, played some good stuff,,goodwillie is a class above , he has some pace, should see you guys in this division next year

[TeeMan]

40 minutes ago, Fae_the_'briggs said:

I don't think I said we weren't positive enough,  I was questioning if we were really set up 442 as some have  suggested.  Of course no formation is rigid but I felt Dobbie looked more advanced and isolated at times, first half anyway.  He was also indicating that players should push out a bit rather than sitting too deep and allowing Motherwell so much space. 

We were set up in the same way we did in a few away games last year. The second striker dropped into midfield when we didn't have the ball, the fact that we couldn't get near Motherwell when they had the ball meant that Dobbie was left a lot more isolated than was ideal.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, Fae_the_'briggs said:

I don't think I said we weren't positive enough,  I was questioning if we were really set up 442 as some have  suggested.  Of course no formation is rigid but I felt Dobbie looked more advanced and isolated at times, first half anyway.  He was also indicating that players should push out a bit rather than sitting too deep and allowing Motherwell so much space. 

You did however say you couldn't understand why Stirling had been left out. For me that is the same as saying we weren't positive enough. The manager left Stirling out and played two more defensive players in Jacobs and Doyle.

[Skyline Drifter]

Oh, and meant to add I've now seen the Semple "tackle". It's a bad one right enough. He's never getting the ball. He does go in with one foot. On balance I don't think it's a red card but you've seen them given. It's certainly the proverbial "yellow and a half". Hopefully Bowman wasn't seriously hurt.

[19QOS19]

I find ut strange Semple is getting a wee bit of stick and Fordyce isn't. Neither of them really handled Sammon but you just need to look at the goals to realise only one of our CB's were potentially at fault, and it wasn't Semple IMO.

As someone else stated, I'd like Doyle to slot in to RB for a period. Mercer has done ok but he looked shaky again last night. I reckon Doyle was put at RM to cover Mercer defensively. But give Doyle the gig and see if he can do it effectively with an attacking player in front of him rather than weakening our entire right hand side in an attacking manner.