Sons Sorrow 2018/19

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Forbes might be free from injury.
He isnt fit.
Plodding about the midfield in a game where opponents are working harder than you are isnt fitness.

I'll say it again, Ross Forbes is fit. Match fit.

Plodding around the midfield creating chances has ALWAYS been his game. He's not going to charge around, it doesn't mean he's not fit enough to play. I know for a fact he is.

I also know for a fact that Gallagher is fit as well.

[Old Scrotum]

26 minutes ago, Boghead ranter said:

Hasn't he got a serious illness?

Apologies - no offence intended.

I was think of Bobby Williamson - out of work for two years.

[BallochSonsFan]

1 minute ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

I'll say it again, Ross Forbes is fit. Match fit.

Plodding around the midfield creating chances has ALWAYS been his game. He's not going to charge around, it doesn't mean he's not fit enough to play. I know for a fact he is.

I also know for a fact that Gallagher is fit as well.

Is this the same fact you knew when you knew we'd have some emergency cash squirrelled away to make more signings or pay off Aitken?

[BallochSonsFan]

Just now, Old Scrotum said:

Apologies - no offence intended.

I was think of Bobby Williamson - out of work for two years.

He's only just got the all clear after fighting cancer for the past couple of years.

[Old Scrotum]

2 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

He's only just got the all clear after fighting cancer for the past couple of years.

I'm really putting my size 13 in it today, am I not?

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Is this the same fact you knew when you knew we'd have some emergency cash squirrelled away to make more signings or pay off Aitken?

Wit. When on earth did I ever say we had emergency cash stashed away?

 

I think you have mistaken me bemoaning Aitken's utterly awful spending of his budget as claiming we have cash to spend? If you'd care to read back I said I was confident the board would have money to pay off Aitken. Not once did I claim to know anything for a fact, infact I had it on fairly good authority we had absolutely f**k all to spend on players. But hey don't let the facts get in the way of an absolute tear stained response.

 

You don't need to believe me, I wont lose any sleep over it tbqhwy.

 

[Pachyderm I]

21 hours ago, Boghead ranter said:

Dafuq have you been?

i've been following but not posting. 

 

I missed you guys too!

 

not even that bothered with SWFC too much either... 

[FifeSons]

45 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

A lot of what you've said is very fair OK3.

The financial position of the club over the summer was difficult. The new board of directors havent had their problems to seek. It's been a huge task just to keep the club going.

Aitken was backed to the best of the board's ability. He's chosen to spend the money on a smaller squad with more perceived quality. Clearly a gamble given our injury situation but the alternative would have been gambling on another horse in the race - building a big squad and hoping that effort makes up for lack of quality. In this league it may well do but if we'd signed jobbers and juniors and struggled then we'd have the same complaints about the squad.

Injuries are a factor. We're without our first choice right back, centre half and midfielder. Take those 3 out of the team and we're under pressure. We're also without our first choice back-up in defence. The creative midfield maestro who was supposed to make things happen isnt fit and we've got guys playing with injuries. We're unable to fill a bench but the guys we can put there are fit enough for maybe 20 or 30 minutes at a push. Again it comes down to Aitken's choice when building the squad but I do have sympathy with him.

Clearly it isnt working for Aitken right now. He isnt getting the best out of the players. I don't buy the arguments others have made about not knowing how to set us up. The past 2 games we've taken the lead. At Brechin we were 2-0 up with 30 minutes to play. Yesterday we started with 2 strikers and 2 attacking wide men. I'm not sure how he can set us up differently or the setting us up is the problem. Keeping our players going for the full 90 minutes is a bigger issue for me. The obvious thing would be to drop underperforming players. It's easy for guys to switch off if there's no threat to their jersey. Unfortunately we just can't do that right now.

There are guys in that squad who are short changing the fans and their manager. Grant Adam looks no more a goalkeeper than I do. Andy Dowie has been woeful at the back. He isn't talking to his team during the game unless he's shouting blame at them and he's had a few defensive howlers himself (including last week at Brechin). Bobby Barr looks great when he's interested but unfortunately seems more interested in arguing with officials or winding up opposition fans. Kyle Hutton hasn't always deserved the level of criticism directed at him but yesterday was woeful. Ross Forbes looks as much an athlete as I do. Rory Loy is just all kinds of wrong.

Are they genuinely playing for the manager? Are they genuinely up for the fight in a division where every other team looks to have grafters? We're being beaten because teams are working harder than we are for the whole of a 90 minute game of football. It isnt down to quality. It isnt down to the way we set ourselves up at the start of a game. It's our complete inability to finish a game. It's a worry when the best players on the park yesterday were 2 of our new signings (Allardyce was ropey) and where we're asking a guy who came back from retirement to do most of the grafting up front. Something isnt right with this group of players and whilst Aitken carries the can for that because he signed them, there must be something else going on. To take the lead in the past 2 games and end up losing, having been outworked by the opposition after going ahead, points to players who aren't up for the fight. Yesterday should have been a reaction after the Brechin game but instead we saw a group of players show almost no dig from about the 15th minute of the game until the last 10 minutes were we actually threw things forward with urgency.

It's easier to punt the manager than the underperforming players (although punting Aitken would cost money the club just doesn't have).  Perhaps that's the solution given how little he's getting from this group of players right now. He certainly deserves a fair bit of the blame but for me there are a number of guys in that squad who aren't delivering for 90 minutes. They're short changing their manager, short changing the fans and letting themselves down. People talk about Aitken having enough pride to know that it isnt working - how many of our players are showing their own professional pride right now?

There's no quick and easy fix to this. A new manager, whoever we would eventually convince to sign, would still be dealing with the same players who have so far shown all the heart of sugar mice.

Goodness me, I had to put the cafetière on to read that.

[Boghead ranter]

30 minutes ago, Pachyderm I said:

i've been following but not posting. 

 

I missed you guys too!

 

not even that bothered with SWFC too much either... 

Do you fancy a shot of the managers job?

[albundy]

A lot of what you've said is very fair OK3.
The financial position of the club over the summer was difficult. The new board of directors havent had their problems to seek. It's been a huge task just to keep the club going.
Aitken was backed to the best of the board's ability. He's chosen to spend the money on a smaller squad with more perceived quality. Clearly a gamble given our injury situation but the alternative would have been gambling on another horse in the race - building a big squad and hoping that effort makes up for lack of quality. In this league it may well do but if we'd signed jobbers and juniors and struggled then we'd have the same complaints about the squad.
Injuries are a factor. We're without our first choice right back, centre half and midfielder. Take those 3 out of the team and we're under pressure. We're also without our first choice back-up in defence. The creative midfield maestro who was supposed to make things happen isnt fit and we've got guys playing with injuries. We're unable to fill a bench but the guys we can put there are fit enough for maybe 20 or 30 minutes at a push. Again it comes down to Aitken's choice when building the squad but I do have sympathy with him.
Clearly it isnt working for Aitken right now. He isnt getting the best out of the players. I don't buy the arguments others have made about not knowing how to set us up. The past 2 games we've taken the lead. At Brechin we were 2-0 up with 30 minutes to play. Yesterday we started with 2 strikers and 2 attacking wide men. I'm not sure how he can set us up differently or the setting us up is the problem. Keeping our players going for the full 90 minutes is a bigger issue for me. The obvious thing would be to drop underperforming players. It's easy for guys to switch off if there's no threat to their jersey. Unfortunately we just can't do that right now.
There are guys in that squad who are short changing the fans and their manager. Grant Adam looks no more a goalkeeper than I do. Andy Dowie has been woeful at the back. He isn't talking to his team during the game unless he's shouting blame at them and he's had a few defensive howlers himself (including last week at Brechin). Bobby Barr looks great when he's interested but unfortunately seems more interested in arguing with officials or winding up opposition fans. Kyle Hutton hasn't always deserved the level of criticism directed at him but yesterday was woeful. Ross Forbes looks as much an athlete as I do. Rory Loy is just all kinds of wrong.
Are they genuinely playing for the manager? Are they genuinely up for the fight in a division where every other team looks to have grafters? We're being beaten because teams are working harder than we are for the whole of a 90 minute game of football. It isnt down to quality. It isnt down to the way we set ourselves up at the start of a game. It's our complete inability to finish a game. It's a worry when the best players on the park yesterday were 2 of our new signings (Allardyce was ropey) and where we're asking a guy who came back from retirement to do most of the grafting up front. Something isnt right with this group of players and whilst Aitken carries the can for that because he signed them, there must be something else going on. To take the lead in the past 2 games and end up losing, having been outworked by the opposition after going ahead, points to players who aren't up for the fight. Yesterday should have been a reaction after the Brechin game but instead we saw a group of players show almost no dig from about the 15th minute of the game until the last 10 minutes were we actually threw things forward with urgency.
It's easier to punt the manager than the underperforming players (although punting Aitken would cost money the club just doesn't have).  Perhaps that's the solution given how little he's getting from this group of players right now. He certainly deserves a fair bit of the blame but for me there are a number of guys in that squad who aren't delivering for 90 minutes. They're short changing their manager, short changing the fans and letting themselves down. People talk about Aitken having enough pride to know that it isnt working - how many of our players are showing their own professional pride right now?
There's no quick and easy fix to this. A new manager, whoever we would eventually convince to sign, would still be dealing with the same players who have so far shown all the heart of sugar mice.

So the way I read this is:
We've picked players with a bad attitude
We've picked players who have fitness issues
We can't motivate the players we have to play 90 mins
We don't have the right chemistry between the group of players we have

For me the accountability for all of the above is the management teams (not just Stevie).

[Jan Vojáček]

AFAIK Forbes is fit. He might not be sharp (because of his lack of gametime) but he's as fit as he's going to be when he spends 70 minutes sat on the bench each week.

Stevie evidently doesn't fancy him (something we said before he'd even signed) because he isn't a Stevie Aitken sort of player, which is fine. I don't agree, but it's his decision at the end of the day, and if it backfires then he's the one who'll have to deal with the consequences.

[lorenzo71]

11 minutes ago, Ross Forbes said:

AFAIK Forbes is fit. He might not be sharp (because of his lack of gametime) but he's as fit as he's going to be when he spends 70 minutes sat on the bench each week.

Stevie evidently doesn't fancy him (something we said before he'd even signed) because he isn't a Stevie Aitken sort of player, which is fine. I don't agree, but it's his decision at the end of the day, and if it backfires then he's the one who'll have to deal with the consequences.

It screams at me that someone like Duffy who knows players strengths would turn us very quickly into a good solid unit.And we would play decent stuff to boot

[squeezeboxson]

2 hours ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

2 hours ago, BallochSonsFan said:

A lot of what you've said is very fair OK3.
The financial position of the club over the summer was difficult. The new board of directors havent had their problems to seek. It's been a huge task just to keep the club going.
Aitken was backed to the best of the board's ability. He's chosen to spend the money on a smaller squad with more perceived quality. Clearly a gamble given our injury situation but the alternative would have been gambling on another horse in the race - building a big squad and hoping that effort makes up for lack of quality. In this league it may well do but if we'd signed jobbers and juniors and struggled then we'd have the same complaints about the squad.
Injuries are a factor. We're without our first choice right back, centre half and midfielder. Take those 3 out of the team and we're under pressure. We're also without our first choice back-up in defence. The creative midfield maestro who was supposed to make things happen isnt fit and we've got guys playing with injuries. We're unable to fill a bench but the guys we can put there are fit enough for maybe 20 or 30 minutes at a push. Again it comes down to Aitken's choice when building the squad but I do have sympathy with him.
Clearly it isnt working for Aitken right now. He isnt getting the best out of the players. I don't buy the arguments others have made about not knowing how to set us up. The past 2 games we've taken the lead. At Brechin we were 2-0 up with 30 minutes to play. Yesterday we started with 2 strikers and 2 attacking wide men. I'm not sure how he can set us up differently or the setting us up is the problem. Keeping our players going for the full 90 minutes is a bigger issue for me. The obvious thing would be to drop underperforming players. It's easy for guys to switch off if there's no threat to their jersey. Unfortunately we just can't do that right now.
There are guys in that squad who are short changing the fans and their manager. Grant Adam looks no more a goalkeeper than I do. Andy Dowie has been woeful at the back. He isn't talking to his team during the game unless he's shouting blame at them and he's had a few defensive howlers himself (including last week at Brechin). Bobby Barr looks great when he's interested but unfortunately seems more interested in arguing with officials or winding up opposition fans. Kyle Hutton hasn't always deserved the level of criticism directed at him but yesterday was woeful. Ross Forbes looks as much an athlete as I do. Rory Loy is just all kinds of wrong.
Are they genuinely playing for the manager? Are they genuinely up for the fight in a division where every other team looks to have grafters? We're being beaten because teams are working harder than we are for the whole of a 90 minute game of football. It isnt down to quality. It isnt down to the way we set ourselves up at the start of a game. It's our complete inability to finish a game. It's a worry when the best players on the park yesterday were 2 of our new signings (Allardyce was ropey) and where we're asking a guy who came back from retirement to do most of the grafting up front. Something isnt right with this group of players and whilst Aitken carries the can for that because he signed them, there must be something else going on. To take the lead in the past 2 games and end up losing, having been outworked by the opposition after going ahead, points to players who aren't up for the fight. Yesterday should have been a reaction after the Brechin game but instead we saw a group of players show almost no dig from about the 15th minute of the game until the last 10 minutes were we actually threw things forward with urgency.
It's easier to punt the manager than the underperforming players (although punting Aitken would cost money the club just doesn't have).  Perhaps that's the solution given how little he's getting from this group of players right now. He certainly deserves a fair bit of the blame but for me there are a number of guys in that squad who aren't delivering for 90 minutes. They're short changing their manager, short changing the fans and letting themselves down. People talk about Aitken having enough pride to know that it isnt working - how many of our players are showing their own professional pride right now?
There's no quick and easy fix to this. A new manager, whoever we would eventually convince to sign, would still be dealing with the same players who have so far shown all the heart of sugar mice.

Ross Forbes is fit.

Just playing shite then. I'll give him his due that he had the 2 assists and then the goal but he was hopeless last week and yesterday. 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Just playing shite then. I'll give him his due that he had the 2 assists and then the goal but he was hopeless last week and yesterday. 

He's not an impact sub. He's quite literally the last guy we should be expecting to come off the bench and make an impact.

Let him play from the start and dictate the pace of the game from the middle of the park. Remove the ever hopeless Hutton from the picture and pair him with a hard working CM ala Thomson or Carswell. If we have a fit Ballantyne ready to slot in at right back and make overlapping runs he'd also work well at right mid.

Not that Aitken would do any of the above, he's not competent enough to even try it.

[squeezeboxson]

24 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

He's not an impact sub. He's quite literally the last guy we should be expecting to come off the bench and make an impact.

Let him play from the start and dictate the pace of the game from the middle of the park. Remove the ever hopeless Hutton from the picture and pair him with a hard working CM ala Thomson or Carswell. If we have a fit Ballantyne ready to slot in at right back and make overlapping runs he'd also work well at right mid.

Not that Aitken would do any of the above, he's not competent enough to even try it.

I think Forbes main problem is that he tries to slow the game down too much. He expects time to take a touch, look up, take another touch, turn and pick out a pass (he is very good at picking out passes!).

What is happening is he takes a touch, looks up and loses the ball. From deadball situations he has good delivery - although the last 2/3 weeks I would say his delivery hasn't been good enough from deadball situation or open play.

[Nowhereman]

I think Forbes main problem is that he tries to slow the game down too much. He expects time to take a touch, look up, take another touch, turn and pick out a pass (he is very good at picking out passes!).
What is happening is he takes a touch, looks up and loses the ball. From meatball situation he has good delivery - although the last 2/3 weeks I would say his delivery hasn't been good enough from deadball situation or open play.

Maybe we'd be better at meatball than football [emoji1]

[squeezeboxson]

2 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

Maybe we'd be better at meatball than football

 phones can change things awfully at time. Rectified 

[Old Scrotum]

Is he away yet?

[Boghead ranter]

17 minutes ago, Old Scrotum said:

Is he away yet?

Yeah*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*away to the cashline,  withdrawing his wedge and laughing up his sleeve. 

[DumbartonTheSons]

For a lot of people, I don't think it's so much the defeats, but the manner of the defeats.

I get that and everyone views it differently. But for me, it's the manner of how we're playing, COUPLED with the lack of winning. If we were playing shite and winning, you get a free pass as a manager because winning games is what it's all about. When you're playing shite, with a squad with plenty of talent in it AND not winning, then it's shoogly peg time.

He isnt getting the best out of the players. I don't buy the arguments others have made about not knowing how to set us up. The past 2 games we've taken the lead. At Brechin we were 2-0 up with 30 minutes to play.

Yesterday we started with 2 strikers and 2 attacking wide men. I'm not sure how he can set us up differently or the setting us up is the problem.

Are they genuinely playing for the manager? Are they genuinely up for the fight in a division where every other team looks to have grafters?

It isnt down to the way we set ourselves up at the start of a game. It's our complete inability to finish a game.

Something isnt right with this group of players.

There's no quick and easy fix to this. A new manager, whoever we would eventually convince to sign, would still be dealing with the same players who have so far shown all the heart of sugar mice.

I'd just like to give my thoughts on the points I've extracted from your post:

He's not getting the best out of our players, absolutely not. But for me, that's partly an issue of motivation, and the responsibility for that is Aitken's. It's also, I believe, that he has flung together another unbalanced squad, and doesn't know how to utilise each of our attacking players to the best of their abilities.

Leading on from that, 'how he can set us up differently' is by playing to our players (that HE signed) strengths.

Playing Forbes behind Loy and/or another forward.

Getting the ball wide to Barr (playing him every week) and Paton (when he's back fit).

Dropping the most pedestrian member of our squad in Hutton who, despite being billed as a defensive midfielder, strolls about taking awful first touches and more often than not losing the ball, or going backwards.

Not playing in such a manner that we just thump the ball up the park into a vague area of where Loy 'might' be, but actually playing it on the ground and working the ball into the feet of our, now four forwards in the squad.

For me, there is an easy fix for this. (OK, not easy in terms of finances, but in terms of what we should be going to sort it). And that's emptying Aitken I'm afraid.

Nobody will convince me in any way that a manager such as Jim Duffy, for example, as one of several possibles, couldn't get more out of a League One squad which includes Bobby Barr, Michael Paton, Ross Forbes, Rory Loy, Iain Russell, Calum Gallagher and now Jack Aitchison. Someone who knows how to play to these players' strengths for a start and get their confidence back.

Stevie evidently doesn't fancy him (something we said before he'd even signed) because he isn't a Stevie Aitken sort of player, which is fine.

It'd be fine for me, if Stevie hadn't bloody signed him. Stevie's signed him, so if he doesn't fancy him then that's very alarming. He won't be on a pittance, and given it's the manager who is in charge of player recruitment, then he'd have to be questioned as to why he signed a player (on an apparently limited budget) that he 'doesn't fancy'.