The_Kincardine Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, DiegoDiego said: It is great. I love language and etymology anyway. To be honest, a couple of months ago I had no idea how important the Picts were. My Scottish history curriculum went something like: The Romans never conquered us, the Picts were too ferocious and our landscape too unforgiving. 1314, f**k the English! 1603, f**k the English! 1707, f**k the English! 1745, f**k the English! Post jacobite cultural genocide and clearances, f**k the English! The timeline for those of us who stayed awake in school was: 1314, f**k the English! 1560, Love the English 1603, Love the English! 1707, Love the English! 1745, Who are the Jacobites? As for cultural genocide and the clearances? 1. There never was one and 2. Little to do with the English. 13 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: Or that until the 16th century Gaelic was called Scots by the people speaking what we call Scots today but was appropriated for political reasons. Or that the Lordship of the Isles existed as independent Norse-Gael kingdom until the 16th century to the extent that they were recognised as a sovereign power and signed a treaty with the Kingdom of England to attack Scotland in 1462. 1. Gaelic was often called Erse by we Scots - especially when Scotland's privy council tried to limit its use. 2. The Lordship of The Isles was ended in the 15th C and not the 16th. This is when Scotland as we know it took its current geographic and political form. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: The timeline for those of us who stayed awake in school was: 1314, f**k the English! 1560, Love the English 1603, Love the English! 1707, Love the English! 1745, Who are the Jacobites? As for cultural genocide and the clearances? 1. There never was one and 2. Little to do with the English. 1. Gaelic was often called Erse by we Scots - especially when Scotland's privy council tried to limit its use. 2. The Lordship of The Isles was ended in the 15th C and not the 16th. This is when Scotland as we know it took its current geographic and political form. 1. Yeah it was an attempt to "other" Gaels and to paint them as an enemy within who need subduing. TBF they had a point. They were a right handful. Not unrelated to 2. 2. Although the Lordhship was officially extinguished in the 15th century continued as a military and political force for a good deal longer and the Council of the Isles continued well into the 16th century Some even say Alasdair Mac Colla during the War of the 3 Kingdoms was the true death of the dynasty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 The timeline for those of us who stayed awake in school was:I'm not sure if I'm understanding your tone correctly here. Why would I have been asleep at school? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 The other reason languages are fun is they aren't always direct translations but a window to another perspective. Rìoghachd nan Eilean and Rì Innse Gall are unequivocally Kingdom of the Isles and King of the Foreigner (Norse) Islands. There are plenty of Gaelic words for a Lord subservient to a king and that's not what the Gaels used. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 21 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: 1. Yeah it was an attempt to "other" Gaels and to paint them as an enemy within who need subduing. TBF they had a point. They were a right handful. I take your point and, without doubt, early 16th C and onwards, Scotland had a massive issue with the Gaels (Erse) and, as you said, saw them as a wrecking ball. Scroll on about 150 years - to the 1800's - and the Gaels largely abandoned Gaelic culture and certainly stopped speaking Gaelic to their weans. Probably because of the Reformation...and a few social factors. 10 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said: I'm not sure if I'm understanding your tone correctly here. Why would I have been asleep at school? If you'd been awake you'd not have posted your litany of shame. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 If you'd been awake you'd not have posted your litany of shame.I'm still not following you. That was how I was taught Scots history. Are you insinuating I'm making it up for some reason? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Just now, DiegoDiego said: 6 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: If you'd been awake you'd not have posted your litany of shame. I'm still not following you. That was how I was taught Scots history. Are you insinuating I'm making it up for some reason? Ask for your money back. Your post of shame bears no relation to Scotland's history. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 7 hours ago, The_Kincardine said: I take your point and, without doubt, early 16th C and onwards, Scotland had a massive issue with the Gaels (Erse) and, as you said, saw them as a wrecking ball. Scroll on about 150 years - to the 1800's - and the Gaels largely abandoned Gaelic culture and certainly stopped speaking Gaelic to their weans. Probably because of the Reformation...and a few social factors. The reformation was a hugely destructive force in terms of the culture of Gaelic. It's a massive theme of the poetry of people like Sorley MacLean and Ruairidh MacThomais. The church were fairly Gaelic language friendly but it's an object lesson in the idea that language without culture is just a set of words and is hugely devalued. From the 1800s Gaelic would have begun to fall away, as you say, from social and economic pressures. Although the 19th century would have been a golden age of Scottish trilingualism in places like Stirlingshire, Lennox, Perthshire and Aberdeenshire where people would have used Gaelic in the home, Scots for trade and commerce and English in education. Much in the same way in India or Africa today you will get people speaking a local/tribal language, a national language and English/French depending on circumstance. We have have some evidence of a Scots/Gaelic Creole that people in Perthshire spoke in the late 19th century. However, it's not really until the start of the 20th century that the alarming, perhaps terminal, decline begins. Moves to industrial farming, the disproportionate affect of two world wars on highland and island communities, the Education Act of the 1880s which allowed only English to be taught in schools all tool their toll. Not to mention that parents just didn't want their children speaking Gaelic. It was seen as impediment to education and getting on in life. This attitude continued right up until the 1980s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 43 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: The reformation was a hugely destructive force in terms of the culture of Gaelic. It didn't do much good for Latin either 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 9 hours ago, DiegoDiego said: I'm not sure if I'm understanding your tone correctly here. "Condescending p***k" is the only tone he's got. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermik Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Must be an easier way to chat up Ann Lundon than learning how to speak Gaelic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 On 07/12/2020 at 21:09, ThatBoyRonaldo said: Bump. They have tripled the size of the Gaelic course on duolingo and released new material over the past few days. Did anyone else complete the original Duolingo course? Once I've done the extended course I'll need to find a wee class or something I can go along to to get conversational in it. Bit late here but I've been doing the duolingo during quiet bits at work and, since the course got updated I've had to spend the entire time training up folk so was just revising what I learnt here and there. Now back to the day job and smashing through the new stuff and loving it. Months of revising (and using other sources here and there) was tedious but feeling the benefit now. The downside to the new stuff is it isn't really teaching more about the mechanics of the language. All the stuff about leniting and why things in Gaelic seem so strange to us monoglot English speakers. It's more just increased vocabulary. But, then again, I expect that's going to take more study than a daft wee free app can do. BBC Alba have some news abou tlearning Gaelic tho https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19077466.boost-future-gaelic-language-launch-major-new-learning-initiative/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) Are you using the app or desktop? The mechanics are available as language notes on desktop and I think all the language notes are available as a single download on a sticky post in the Scottish Gaelic Duolinguo FB page. That said, if you have specific questions happy to answer them here Edited February 12, 2021 by invergowrie arab 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 49 minutes ago, supermik said: Must be an easier way to chat up Ann Lundon than learning how to speak Gaelic. And from that perspective you're probably be better spending the time learning Swedish 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 32 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: Are you using the app or desktop? The mechanics are available as language notes on desktop and I think all the language notes are available as a single download on a sticky post in the Scottish Gaelic Duolinguo FB page. That said, if you have specific questions happy to answer them here A mixture. Desktop at work and app at home. The tips on the desktop are great but the new material doesn't seem to address it as much as the original material did. Could just be because the first lessons were so new and I'm picking up parts of it as I go now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Another bump. Moved jobs and been a bit stressed so my "practise" for the last two months has been doing one thing a day on duolingo just to keep my streak going. Back on it again now with a trip to Stornoway planned which will be my first time using it in the wild. Absolutely certain I am butchering the languge each time I try speaking it out loud but nothing much I can do about that until I start using it in conversation and take correction. How are all the other learners getting on? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 I made great strides while on furlough. While I've not been able to study as much of late I have started a customer facing tourist job in the Highlands. It's great being able to trace a route on an OS map and say "oh, that means small hill of the dogs" or whatever. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 7 hours ago, Pato said: The weather level killed me on duolingo. I got it done then threw my phone into the sea. Even now when I go back to that, and I musta revised it 50 times, I still can't spell goathach, ceothach and sgothach and I get them mixed up. Cloudy? Misty? Windy? f**k knows. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Cloudy? Misty? Windy? f**k knows. Generally it's all three at the same time, so you can't really go wrong in practice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 I already got ma answers sorted no matter what the weather's like... Co rìs a tha an-t sìde coltach? Beautiful sunny day = Chan eil dona Everything else = Grànnda 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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