eindhovendee Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Not exactly broken, but varied. Yes, as long as it's reasonable it's OK - why wouldn't it be OK to vary a contract if the variance is reasonable? It would be a shite state of affairs if we couldn't vary contracts just because they exist. I didn't say an employee can't contest new terms, nor did I say they would be dismissed for being "unreasonable' if they did so. The contract really protects both the parties but probably the employee needs protected more than the employer for numerous reasons. The point is very simple - the contract sets out the relationship and is biding at the time is is agreed to. However, reasonable changes can be made later - as I said before, why would anyone reject a reasonable change? That would make them unreasonable and how can a business succeed with unreasonable employees/employers and why should the law protect unreasonable employees/employers. The key word is reasonable - that is not up to the employee or employer to decide - the courts will if a dispute arises.Not enough use of the words unreasonable/reasonable imo.Thank you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, eindhovendee said: Not enough use of the words unreasonable/reasonable imo. Thank you. Be reasonable - when you're using the terms reasonable and unreasonable it's hard to avoid using reasonable and unreasonable. i'd say it's reasonable enough and you're comment, whilst appreciated, is unreasonable. Thank you! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishtergrolsch Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 47 minutes ago, hk blues said: Not exactly broken, but varied. Yes, as long as it's reasonable it's OK - why wouldn't it be OK to vary a contract if the variance is reasonable? It would be a shite state of affairs if we couldn't vary contracts just because they exist. I didn't say an employee can't contest new terms, nor did I say they would be dismissed for being "unreasonable' if they did so. The contract really protects both the parties but probably the employee needs protected more than the employer for numerous reasons. The point is very simple - the contract sets out the relationship and is biding at the time is is agreed to. However, reasonable changes can be made later - as I said before, why would anyone reject a reasonable change? That would make them unreasonable and how can a business succeed with unreasonable employees/employers and why should the law protect unreasonable employees/employers. The key word is reasonable - that is not up to the employee or employer to decide - the courts will if a dispute arises. I get your overall point. Im not trying to be unreasonable, but who decides if the proposed change is reasonable or unreasonable? What i think may be unreasonable someone else may find reasonable. Its all about opinions. The 25 mile rule imo is unreasonable to existing employees but United seem to think its reasonable. Some players have agreed to it and some havent as they have mortgages and families and i can understand that. Its unreasonable for United to ask them to relocatefor a reasonably short period of time. Id be telling the HR jobber to gtf personally. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Just now, mishtergrolsch said: I get your overall point. Im not trying to be unreasonable, but who decides if the proposed change is reasonable or unreasonable? What i think may be unreasonable someone else may find reasonable. Its all about opinions. The 25 mile rule imo is unreasonable to existing employees but United seem to think its reasonable. Some players have agreed to it and some havent as they have mortgages and families and i can understand that. Its unreasonable for United to ask them to relocatefor a reasonably short period of time. Id be telling the HR jobber to gtf personally. I was that HR jobber!!!! The court (Employment Tribunal) decide what's reasonable - as you say, your reasonable won't be mine. Honestly speaking, I've always found that employers are more reasonable than employees due to the simple fact they can be taken to tribunal whilst they cannot take employees to tribunal. No matter what people might think, tribunals tend to err on the employee's side IMO. I would say that though, wouldn't i? I agree that the 25-mile rule seems to be unreasonable but it would depend on individual player's circumstances - the court would look at each employee's situation individually rather than take a general approach. It's hard to imagine a court finding in Utd's favour on this one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szamo's_Ammo Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishtergrolsch Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 2 hours ago, hk blues said: I was that HR jobber!!!! The court (Employment Tribunal) decide what's reasonable - as you say, your reasonable won't be mine. Honestly speaking, I've always found that employers are more reasonable than employees due to the simple fact they can be taken to tribunal whilst they cannot take employees to tribunal. No matter what people might think, tribunals tend to err on the employee's side IMO. I would say that though, wouldn't i? I agree that the 25-mile rule seems to be unreasonable but it would depend on individual player's circumstances - the court would look at each employee's situation individually rather than take a general approach. It's hard to imagine a court finding in Utd's favour on this one. In that case, gtf personally 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 You're getting your knickers in a twist over nothing. There's been no suggestion of United imposing this rule on existing staff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartyftd1 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 A 6'3" North African centre half is exactly what we're missing this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 How many centre halfs (halves?) do we need? Perhaps this would pave the way for launching a selection of Scobbie, Toshney, The Edge and Watson into orbit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, banana said: How many centre halfs (halves?) do we need? Perhaps this would pave the way for launching a selection of Scobbie, Toshney, The Edge and Watson into orbit. Scobbie and Edge are on the way out; Toshney's dead. That leaves Frans, Barton and Watson. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 39 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said: Scobbie and Edge are on the way out; Toshney's dead. That leaves Frans, Barton and Watson. Plus Murdoch and Allerdice. Granted neither is a natural CH, but Csabba Things. RIP Toshers BTW. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyFears2 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Not long til close of office hours. When are we announcing administration? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 28 minutes ago, banana said: Plus Murdoch and Allerdice. Granted neither is a natural CH, but Csabba Things. RIP Toshers BTW. Yeah, RIP. We hardly knew ye. Apparently he used to be a footballer in his youth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accent-Unknown Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Oh dear Fraser... oh dear. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szamo's_Ammo Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 The Slacks My Father Wore 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 Glad we don’t have a game today, important that the lads get a rest after all their hard work in the last two games/Typical that just when we get some momentum, we have a week off* *delete as appropriate 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundee Hibernian Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 If we'd had a game, and Csaba had made yet another arse of things, the penny might just have dropped with Martin, and a new manager could have had an opportunity to introduce changes prior to the end of August. Wishful thinking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishtergrolsch Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Dundee Hibernian said: If we'd had a game, and Csaba had made yet another arse of things, the penny might just have dropped with Martin, and a new manager could have had an opportunity to introduce changes prior to the end of August. Wishful thinking. I thought since we won the last game it meant the Chairman was giving Csaba till 2027 to turn it round. Hopefully the takeover will have happened by then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 Any of the Dees been in tonight? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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