Kieran Tierney

[Jambomo]

25 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Hi there, I know we're top of the league and I'm involved in basically every game, but could I please move to Leicester in January?

Don’t be daft. Nobody wants to go to Leicester. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

4 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Hi there, I know we're top of the league and I'm involved in basically every game, but could I please move to Leicester in January?

Or

"I'm only getting 5mins at the end of league games, I'm better than that"

For the record I dont think he should be asking for a move yet, he's good enough to force his way back in the team. (League team)

I do find it strange people think his current situation is fine tho

 

[Bing.McCrosby]

17 hours ago, Satoshi said:

No, that's another thing you have just made up. There's a very good chance he will play, as he has in all league matches but 1, but he is unlikely to start given he played 90 mins in the Europa league on Thursday (and put in a MOTM performance).

How on earth could he be frozen out of the first team if he's made the 10th most appearances of any outfield player? More than the two players he is supposedly third choice behind? Do you know what frozen out means? I'm happy to make a charity bet he will make more appearances than Cedric Soares - a genuinely frozen out international full back.

I wasn't proven wrong about anything, I thought Tomiyasu played for tactical reasons, and then they didn't want to change a team that was doing well. Tierney has factually played more minutes than Tomiyasu and Zinchenko. But obviously I do not have unnique insight into Artetas decision minutes, I can only speculate. It's not as if I said a player who has the tenth most minutes of any outfield player has been frozen out and is well out the first team picture.

What's clearly happened is that you exaggerated how far out of the Arsenal team he is, and were proven wrong with factual information. It's no big deal, I don't think for a second you knew he had the 10th most minutes of any outfield player. If you did you absolutely would not have said he was frozen out and well out the first team picture. 

You didn't know, you got it wrong, and were corrected. No need to keep doubling down on it, just accept and move on. It's really not a big deal.

What do you think is artetas priority, the premier league or the Europa league?

The answer is the premier league

Where do you think he is playing his first choice team?

The answer is the premier league

Does Tierney start games there?

The answer is no, he does not. He comes on as a sub near the end of game.

Do you understand the europa league is a rotated team?

I'm not sure you do, it is

[Theroadlesstravelled]

He’s bit part because he’s 3rd choice behind Tomiyasu and Zinchenko who can both play in multiple positions.

I can see Arsenal moving him on to make room in the squad. 

[Satoshi]

3 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

What do you think is artetas priority, the premier league or the Europa league?

The answer is the premier league

Where do you think he is playing his first choice team?

The answer is the premier league

Does Tierney start games there?

The answer is no, he does not. He comes on as a sub near the end of game.

Do you understand the europa league is a rotated team?

I'm not sure you do, it is

Of course I understand that, which is why it's important Tierney has played all but one game in the premier League. He came on yesterday, and did really well.

If you had said Tierney would be disappointed with his number of starts in the premier League you would be bang on.

Instead you exaggerated and said he was frozen out and well out the first team picture.

When you said that did you know he had more minutes than Tomiyasu and Zinchenko? Did you know he played in all league games but one? Did you know he had the 10th most minutes of any Arsenal player?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

And we all know the answer is no - and there's nothing wrong with that, I didn't know any of those things until I checked them. I knew straight away you were exaggerating (as is common on the board) but I didn't realise it was by that much.

If you did know the above but still posted about how he was well out the first team picture and frozen out, well....you can't realistically respond to someone with some major logical gaps. It's the same reason there is no point responding to flat earthers.

 

[Bing.McCrosby]

1 hour ago, Satoshi said:

Of course I understand that, which is why it's important Tierney has played all but one game in the premier League. He came on yesterday, and did really well.

If you had said Tierney would be disappointed with his number of starts in the premier League you would be bang on.

Instead you exaggerated and said he was frozen out and well out the first team picture.

When you said that did you know he had more minutes than Tomiyasu and Zinchenko? Did you know he played in all league games but one? Did you know he had the 10th most minutes of any Arsenal player?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

And we all know the answer is no - and there's nothing wrong with that, I didn't know any of those things until I checked them. I knew straight away you were exaggerating (as is common on the board) but I didn't realise it was by that much.

If you did know the above but still posted about how he was well out the first team picture and frozen out, well....you can't realistically respond to someone with some major logical gaps. It's the same reason there is no point responding to flat earthers.

 

What's important is what's happening now. The other players mentioned are ahead of him in his position now. He's a Scotland player who has been dropped from the first team.  He's not started a league game for quite a while. That's concerns me as a Scotland fan. I'm ok that you think it's great for some reason. I'm not going to converse with you further on the matter for the good of everyone else.

I'm also glad you enjoyed the 5 mins he played yesterday, but I think your opinion on the matter isn't worth listening to. Tierney himself has expressed being disappointed with his game time. So I'm going to ignore you and listen to him.

[Satoshi]

8 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

What's important is what's happening now. The other players mentioned are ahead of him in his position now. He's a Scotland player who has been dropped from the first team.  He's not started a league game for quite a while. That's concerns me as a Scotland fan. I'm ok that you think it's great for some reason. I'm not going to converse with you further on the matter for the good of everyone else.

I'm also glad you enjoyed the 5 mins he played yesterday, but I think your opinion on the matter isn't worth listening to. Tierney himself has expressed being disappointed with his game time. So I'm going to ignore you and listen to him.

Not surprised at all you avoided that yes or no question.

You exaggerated, were called out on it by factual statistical information, and decided to keep digging rather than just accept it.

I'm also disappointed Tierney isn't starting more Premier League games, all he can do is thrive when he does play (which he does) and train well (his team mate said recently he is the best trainer at the club).

His head didn't go down, Arteta trusts him and he plays almost every game, with more minutes than the other two players he is supposedly behind. His team is top of the league and playing brilliantly, I'm sure he would rather that than playing 60 games of 90 minutes for someone like Celtic or Leicester.

 

[Bing.McCrosby]

35 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

Not surprised at all you avoided that yes or no question.

You exaggerated, were called out on it by factual statistical information, and decided to keep digging rather than just accept it.

I'm also disappointed Tierney isn't starting more Premier League games, all he can do is thrive when he does play (which he does) and train well (his team mate said recently he is the best trainer at the club).

His head didn't go down, Arteta trusts him and he plays almost every game, with more minutes than the other two players he is supposedly behind. His team is top of the league and playing brilliantly, I'm sure he would rather that than playing 60 games of 90 minutes for someone like Celtic or Leicester.

 

Just one more thing.

No I hadn't counted the minutes that the players he's now behind had played in comparison. As it's not really relevant. What's relevant is his recent game time for the first choice team in the league.

And to put that in comparison yesterday Zinchenko who's just back from injury played 78 minutes, compared to Tierneys 12. Over the last 7 league matches which Tierney has been fully fit for the has played 83 minutes total. Not including injury time. Which shows exactly where he is in the managers thinking currently.

Were you aware of that? a simple yes or no will suffice.

He's currently a bit part player for arsenal, I have no idea why you won't accept this.

And no I'm not interested in any comparison with Brazil's first choice left back.

[Satoshi]

22 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Just one more thing.

No I hadn't counted the minutes that the players he's now behind had played in comparison. As it's not really relevant. What's relevant is his recent game time for the first choice team in the league.

And to put that in comparison yesterday Zinchenko who's just back from injury played 78 minutes, compared to Tierneys 12. Over the last 7 league matches which Tierney has been fully fit for the has played 83 minutes total. Not including injury time. Which shows exactly where he is in the managers thinking currently.

Were you aware of that? a simple yes or no will suffice.

He's currently a bit part player for arsenal, I have no idea why you won't accept this.

And no I'm not interested in any comparison with Brazil's first choice left back.

Was I aware of the minutes he was playing? Yes, I was the one who told you!

He's played every league game but one. At least you have abandoned the idea that he is well out of the first team picture, and frozen out, to now just a bit part player. You did it about 5 posts too late but at least you finally did it.

He has the 10th most minutes of any outfield player. 

I'm sure he would like to be starting more in the league, but at least Arteta is giving him league minutes every game except one.

All top level players know that rotation is part of the game, it's not like he's genuinely frozen out like Cedric. He might think not playing constantly in every game will help his long term injury issues.

He has got more minutes than any other Arsenal left back this season.

Tierney, and Robertson, would both 100% start for Brazil.

You exaggerated, got it wrong, and were corrected. It's no big deal. Correct choice if you now stop digging.

[Bing.McCrosby]

6 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

Was I aware of the minutes he was playing? Yes, I was the one who told you!

He's played every league game but one. At least you have abandoned the idea that he is well out of the first team picture, and frozen out, to now just a bit part player. You did it about 5 posts too late but at least you finally did it.

He has the 10th most minutes of any outfield player. 

I'm sure he would like to be starting more in the league, but at least Arteta is giving him league minutes every game except one.

All top level players know that rotation is part of the game, it's not like he's genuinely frozen out like Cedric. He might think not playing constantly in every game will help his long term injury issues.

He has got more minutes than any other Arsenal left back this season.

Tierney, and Robertson, would both 100% start for Brazil.

You exaggerated, got it wrong, and were corrected. It's no big deal. Correct choice if you now stop digging.

I'm not sure what you think I have admitted, I wasn't concerned when Tierney was starting league games earlier in the season. And never posted anything remotely like that at the time. 

The exact game he wasn't selected when zinchenko was injured and he wasn't selected I was concerned, and have been proven exactly right to be so. As he hasn't started a game since. And has been a bit part player in the league. I've actually shown remarkable insight to call it as early as I did. Which I think bothers you.

[Satoshi]

2 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I'm not sure what you think I have admitted, I wasn't concerned when Tierney was starting league games earlier in the season. And never posted anything remotely like that at the time. 

The exact game he wasn't selected when zinchenko was injured and he wasn't selected I was concerned, and have been proven exactly right to be so. As he hasn't started a game since. And has been a bit part player in the league. I've actually shown remarkable insight to call it as early as I did. Which I think bothers you.

You keep saying it's your last post then keep coming back? Why?

You thought Tierney was frozen out and well out of the first team picture, you have now toned this down to a 'bit part player' (who just happens to play pretty much every game). You did it several posts too late but at least you finally did it. I didn't think he would start against Chelsea, but did think he would play. And I was right.

I wouldn't call saying he was frozen out remarkable insight. 

You exaggerated, got it wrong, and were called out on it (using publicly available stats that you admit you weren't aware of). Please take some of your advice and stop digging.

[Bing.McCrosby]

10 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

You keep saying it's your last post then keep coming back? Why?

You thought Tierney was frozen out and well out of the first team picture, you have now toned this down to a 'bit part player' (who just happens to play pretty much every game). You did it several posts too late but at least you finally did it. I didn't think he would start against Chelsea, but did think he would play. And I was right.

I wouldn't call saying he was frozen out remarkable insight. 

You exaggerated, got it wrong, and were called out on it (using publicly available stats that you admit you weren't aware of). Please take some of your advice and stop digging.

I'm delighted for you that Tierneys game time prior to me being concerned about his game time makes you feel in some way correct. But publicly available stats also proves that since my post regarding concern about his place in the team my prediction was pretty bloody accurate. 

[Satoshi]

1 minute ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I'm delighted for you that Tierneys game time prior to me being concerned about his game time makes you feel in some way correct. But publicly available stats also proves that since my post regarding concern about his place in the team my prediction was pretty bloody accurate. 

You posted that he was frozen out and well out of the picture when he wasn't. He has played in both games since you posted this (once for the whole match). You, thankfully and about time, toned this down to him being a bit part player.

It happened before on this board for another poster, are you really totally unwilling to admit you exaggerated? I just don't get it, it means nothing, you keep posting to defend the indefensible (promising to leave several times). It is really that hard to admit you just got it wrong?

He isn't starting as many league games as he thinks he should, we agree on that, but what's also without doubt is that his manager trusts him, plays him almost every game, and he is being praised in the media for being the best trainer at the club.

When faced with not starting league games, Tierney hasn't stropped he has responded to it brilliantly and made an excellent sub appearance in a crucial win yesterday, which put his team top of the league. And that followed a man of the match performance during the week.

Will you admit you got it wrong? Of course not, but let's hope one day you follow through on your promise to stop posting, and stop digging.

[Bing.McCrosby]

7 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

It happened before on this board for another poster, are you really totally unwilling to admit you exaggerated? I just don't get it, it means nothing, you keep posting to defend the indefensible (promising to leave several times). 

Can you quote me promising to leave the discussion several times please?

[Jambomo]

2 hours ago, Satoshi said:

You posted that he was frozen out and well out of the picture when he wasn't. He has played in both games since you posted this (once for the whole match). You, thankfully and about time, toned this down to him being a bit part player.

It happened before on this board for another poster, are you really totally unwilling to admit you exaggerated? I just don't get it, it means nothing, you keep posting to defend the indefensible (promising to leave several times). It is really that hard to admit you just got it wrong?

He isn't starting as many league games as he thinks he should, we agree on that, but what's also without doubt is that his manager trusts him, plays him almost every game, and he is being praised in the media for being the best trainer at the club.

When faced with not starting league games, Tierney hasn't stropped he has responded to it brilliantly and made an excellent sub appearance in a crucial win yesterday, which put his team top of the league. And that followed a man of the match performance during the week.

Will you admit you got it wrong? Of course not, but let's hope one day you follow through on your promise to stop posting, and stop digging.

I disagree, if your manager trusts you then he’ll start you in games you are fit to play. He was MOTM on Thursday night and then was dropped for Zinchenko who has been out for weeks and was really pretty rusty. He’s played Tomiyasu in games where Tierney would have been the better choice (Southampton and Leeds) he’s pretty obviously fallen back

The other thing that makes me think there’s an problem is that last season he was one of a couple of players given the captains armband. This season Arteta has this “leadership group” and he isn’t in it. 

There are reasonable reasons to think he is being frozen out, managers can do this whilst still giving players minutes, being the Europa League player and getting sub appearances here and there are probably not what top players want. 

[Satoshi]

1 hour ago, Jambomo said:

I disagree, if your manager trusts you then he’ll start you in games you are fit to play. He was MOTM on Thursday night and then was dropped for Zinchenko who has been out for weeks and was really pretty rusty. He’s played Tomiyasu in games where Tierney would have been the better choice (Southampton and Leeds) he’s pretty obviously fallen back

The other thing that makes me think there’s an problem is that last season he was one of a couple of players given the captains armband. This season Arteta has this “leadership group” and he isn’t in it. 

There are reasonable reasons to think he is being frozen out, managers can do this whilst still giving players minutes, being the Europa League player and getting sub appearances here and there are probably not what top players want. 

He's not getting sub appearances here and there, he has featured in every league game except one (their only league loss of the season). He has more first team minutes than Tomiyasu or Zinchenko and the 10th most of any outfield player.

Given his injury history, it's not at all surprising that he didn't play two 90 minutes in 4 days.

As for if he trusted him he would start every game, clearly the manager trusts more than 10 outfield players (surely every manager does!?) If he didn't trust him he wouldn't play him in almost every game. He was the first sub used in that Chelsea match.

If you're going to freeze a player out Tieney would be getting the equivalent of Cedric minutes, not playing pretty much every game and having the 10th highest minutes of any outfield player.

The stats on this really couldn't be clearer. It's fair to say he isn't starting as much as he would like to, he's an excellent player, but completely incorrect to say he's being frozen out or is miles off the first team.

[dundeefc1783]

11 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

He's not getting sub appearances here and there, he has featured in every league game except one (their only league loss of the season). He has more first team minutes than Tomiyasu or Zinchenko and the 10th most of any outfield player.

Given his injury history, it's not at all surprising that he didn't play two 90 minutes in 4 days.

As for if he trusted him he would start every game, clearly the manager trusts more than 10 outfield players (surely every manager does!?) If he didn't trust him he wouldn't play him in almost every game. He was the first sub used in that Chelsea match.

If you're going to freeze a player out Tieney would be getting the equivalent of Cedric minutes, not playing pretty much every game and having the 10th highest minutes of any outfield player.

The stats on this really couldn't be clearer. It's fair to say he isn't starting as much as he would like to, he's an excellent player, but completely incorrect to say he's being frozen out or is miles off the first team.

Zinchenko has been struggling with injuries since the end of August and before Thursday  had missed Arsenal's last 8 games so it's no surprise Tierney has more minutes than him. 

However Tierney is still significantly behind Zinchenko in terms of league minutes. That's now three times this season Zinchenko has been injured then brought straight back in, those 3 games being Man U, Spurs and Chelsea. 

Tierney might be still be making fleeting appearances in the league but he hasn't started a league game since mid September and as had been pointed out in the six league games since has managed a grand total of 89 league minutes.

And despite putting in probably his best performance of the season in midweek he still can't make the starting line up at the weekend as Arteta favours a player who hasn't played 90 minutes since August and missed the last 8 games. 

It appears no matter what Tierney does in Europa League games he is not gonna force his way into the league starting line up unless there is injuries to other players.

That's got to be a major concern for KT regardless of comments he makes in media.

 

[Satoshi]

2 minutes ago, dundeefc1783 said:

Zinchenko has been struggling with injuries since the end of August and before Thursday  had missed Arsenal's last 8 games so it's no surprise Tierney has more minutes than him. 

However Tierney is still significantly behind Zinchenko in terms of league minutes. That's now three times this season Zinchenko has been injured then brought straight back in, those 3 games being Man U, Spurs and Chelsea. 

Tierney might be still be making fleeting appearances in the league but he hasn't started a league game since mid September and as had been pointed out in the six league games since has managed a grand total of 89 league minutes.

And despite putting in probably his best performance of the season in midweek he still can't make the starting line up at the weekend as Arteta favours a player who hasn't played 90 minutes since August and missed the last 8 games. 

It appears no matter what Tierney does in Europa League games he is not gonna force his way into the league starting line up unless there is injuries to other players.

That's got to be a major concern for KT regardless of comments he makes in media.

 

Again, it would be a massive shock for a player with Tierneys injury record to play 90 minutes twice in four days. It would be absolute madness from Arteta. Zinchenko hardly just returned to training yesterday, he was on the bench for Thursday's game.

I'm sure he would like to start more games in the league, I've said that repeatedly, but he absolutely hasn't been frozen out. His team are top of the league. He could 100% get near constant minutes at 99% of other top division teams around Europe but I can fully understand that he wants to play with the best coaches, alongside the best players.

If they win the league and he ends up with 37 league appearances (they lost the only game he missed so far) and starts in every cup game, he's been a big contributer to their season. And if he wants to start in every league game he could do so easily, but it's something that almost no top level club offers these days. Hence why Foden was benched for the last three league games.

[dundeefc1783]

7 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

Again, it would be a massive shock for a player with Tierneys injury record to play 90 minutes twice in four days. It would be absolute madness from Arteta. Zinchenko hardly just returned to training yesterday, he was on the bench for Thursday's game.

I'm sure he would like to start more games in the league, I've said that repeatedly, but he absolutely hasn't been frozen out. His team are top of the league. He could 100% get near constant minutes at 99% of other top division teams around Europe but I can fully understand that he wants to play with the best coaches, alongside the best players.

If they win the league and he ends up with 37 league appearances (they lost the only game he missed so far) and starts in every cup game, he's been a big contributer to their season. And if he wants to start in every league game he could do so easily, but it's something that almost no top level club offers these days. Hence why Foden was benched for the last three league games.

But why is he playing the Europa League games and not the League games. It's quite clear there is some sort of issue there or he would it would be the opposite way about. He clearly can't start every league games easily because his manager is refusing to pick him

 

He has not been a big contributer to their league campaign as yet.

 There is absolutely no way a player like Tierney is going to be content playing in Europa League games and getting 10 or 15 minutes in league games. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by dundeefc1783

[Satoshi]

1 hour ago, dundeefc1783 said:

But why is he playing the Europa League games and not the League games. It's quite clear there is some sort of issue there or he would it would be the opposite way about. He clearly can't start every league games easily because his manager is refusing to pick him

 

He has not been a big contributer to their league campaign as yet.

 There is absolutely no way a player like Tierney is going to be content playing in Europa League games and getting 10 or 15 minutes in league games. 

Managers decision, maybe tactical, maybe something else. Their top of the league so he's clearly doing something right.

But I don't think Tierney will be happy with his playing time this season, he's an elite full back and other top clubs would offer him more game time.

His manager is not 'refusing to pick him' as he has played all but one league games, he seems reluctant to start him in the league and (recently) has been preferring Tomiyasu and Zinchenko in the league. No guarantee that will last the full season as Arteta clearly likes to rotate his full backs.

If he ends the season with more minutes than both of them (as he has now) and playing in all league matches except one (as he has until now) that won't be too bad a season. He's good enough to be starting league games elsewhere, no doubt about that, but no harm in playing a lot for a top of the table team.

Arteta may think he has been a big contributor, you may think he hasn't. I don't think it really matters, he has played every game except one (and the one he missed out was their sole defeat).

I would rather he continues at Arsenal, along top players and top coaches, than drop down to a lesser team and get more minutes. He is comfortably getting enough minutes to stay fit, and isn't getting too many that will lead to recurring injuries (which has been a big problem for him). So nothing particularly to worry about for me as a Scotland fan.

He would stroll into the Brazil team, and probably the England team (Shaw is a bit pish, but plays more regularly in a much worse team).